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Just got into Berkeley, Master's in Social Welfare. Is it worth the mountain of debt? (self.AskReddit)

submitted 5 months ago by AN-DL

I'm 30 years old and hit the glass ceiling in my field (social work in San Francisco). I need to get licensed to move up the ladder, which requires an MSW. I just found out I was accepted into Berkeley's MSW program, and even though I'm thrilled by the opportunity, I don't know how to wrap my mind around all that debt. I don't know what to do!

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TheDais 11 points12 points 5 months ago[-]

You are in the wrong place to ask this question. For as much as reddit respects the sciences, there's a serious anti-social science bent.

In my limited experience going to a big name school has inherent value in academia and finding your first job. If you are already established in your career, maybe getting an MSW is important, but where it is from is not. Perhaps there's a cheaper option than UC-Berkley.

Getting a degree is a risk. There is no guarantee that the money spent will make it back to you. That said, if everyone above you in your field has an advanced degree, then getting that degree seems like a strong career move. I'd ask the director of the program to place you in contact with alumni, preferably those who started the program in a similar position as you. They will give you the most honest opinion about what the program can and can't provide to you.

Good luck.

AN-DL [S] 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

wow. that's smart. thank you.

danceswithsmurfs 4 points5 points 5 months ago[-]

All what debt? How much does it cost?

AN-DL [S] 3 points4 points 5 months ago[-]

so much more than it should. it's over $30,000 a year, two year program. although i'm applying for scholarships yada yada.

AgentME 3 points4 points 5 months ago[-]

Don't most California colleges cost around $30,000/year? (I'm just in high school so I may be pretty off on that.)

danceswithsmurfs 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

yikes. did you apply to more than one school? maybe another program will keep you out of the poor house. don't get hung up a particular school just for the prestige. you may find that there's another school out that that's a much better fit for you.

AN-DL [S] 2 points3 points 5 months ago[-]

that's the thing. i know i can go to other schools. but i feel like, if i'm going to commit myself to studying, then I should really study. and of course there's the doors it would open for my future...

mdm4584 2 points3 points 5 months ago[-]

My masters was $6k --- I was lucky enough to have received a full-tuition fellowship for the majority of degree program.

The $6k loan amortized like a mortgage. If I had stuck to the minimum P&I payment of $80 it probably would have taken a very long time to pay the thing off. When I could I made large payments that accelerated paying down the principal, but it still has been about 3 years to get the damn thing paid off (I also had a loan from college of about $3.5k). Paying a fixed-rate student loan proved to take much longer than I had originally anticipated and I had favorable terms with a direct loan from the federal government.

I think you need to consult Berkeley's financial aid office to figure out how the $60k will be financed. It won't be pretty.

I went to www.finaid.org and used their loan calculator to see what financing $60k would roughly look like. I used $60k as the principal to be financed, fixed interest rate of 6%, loan fees equal to 1% of principal, 20 year term, with minimum payments of $100 as inputs. The calculator says you would need to make 240 $434.20 monthly payments to pay the loan off over a 20 year period --- it is estimated you would need to make over $52,100 annually to "be able to afford" the loan. This estimate is probably low; you'll probably have to take out some variable-rate loans, or finance additional expenses, or pay a premium in the form of an increased interest rate since the term period is longer than the traditional 10 years, etc.

The education is likely to be great, but at a very significant cost --- one that you probably haven't fully anticipated. I see this all of the time; a lot of my friends have $60-$90-$100k+ in student loans and they don't realize the consequences of borrowing so much. Just be careful to critically analyze just how much you're going to borrow versus the benefits you expect to receive from the degree.

AN-DL [S] 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

THANK YOU. I WILL LOOK AT THIS ASAP.

sanka 2 points3 points 5 months ago[-]

It's not worth it. You will be debt ridden for your entire working life and have nothing to retire on. If you think a state pension will be around in 30-40 years, you're deluding yourself.

AN-DL [S] 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

so i should just stick with my dead end job???

zidane33 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

if you stick with your dead end job, what goals will you put to yourself in the future?

AN-DL [S] 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

God, it's hard when nobody will let you take on more responsibility. But that doesn't mean I couldn't get one of those silly on-line degrees. Not that I'm against them, but they aren't exactly capable of providing the education that a Berkeley program can.
I guess my main goal is to advance in my career in order to better serve the mentally ill, homeless population. And when you put it that way, debt isn't a part of the equation. Except that I still need to eat and everything.

kublakhan1816 1 point2 points 5 months ago* [-]

Is there some kind of government job or non-profit you can get into afterwords that will forgive your school debt? Your kind of work seems very much focused on helping people. My brother is a school teacher and some of his loans are being forgiven ($14,000) because he's teaching in a low-income school district. Your kind of work seems very similar. You're helping people in need and organizations and government need to attract people with good education to those kind of jobs. Loan forgiveness and paying off your debt would attract those like you to the work.

2shy 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

Is the $14,000 for a B.Ed. or a M.A.? Was this also in Calif?

kublakhan1816 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

Here you go: http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/cancelstaff.jsp?tab=repaying

I didn't read through the whole site. When he first told me about it, I was concerned that it might trigger a tax event. I asked him to look into it. I haven't heard from him about it.

2shy 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

Thanks for looking up the link. I will read through it.

Props to your bro for having become a teacher. A honourable vocation if there's one.

kublakhan1816 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

It's not in CA. It's in TX. But I believe it's a national program. I'm sorry. I will try to get more information. I'll send him an email right now. It was for a Bachelors.

AN-DL [S] 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

i will mos def look into it. thank you

stakkar 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

mos def

AN-DL [S] 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

maybe i can help him get back on track ;)

zidane33 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

don't be scared of the debt. 20 years from now you'll be glad you took it. it's kinda hard to think of someone who would say 'man i wish i didn't get my masters' you know what i mean?

GoofyBoy 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

Is this sarcasm?

A few people I've spoken to have looked me straight in the eye and said their Master's wasn't worth it.

2shy 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

A few people I've spoken to have looked me straight in the eye and said their Master's wasn't worth it.

Sadly, I can add a couple more to that list.

AN-DL [S] 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

eerrrrmmm i wouldn't say that! just look at some of the other commenters, they seem pretty damn bitter (jewcifer). i think the difference between myself and jewcifer is that I've already committed myself to the field of social work and most definitely will use the degree toward my future.

TaleSlinger 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

This was downvoted, and to the extent anyone reads this, it may be too, but this has been my personal experience. Going to a top school has made a difference long beyond my first job. In fact, it paid dividends until I got an even more prestigous credential, at which point, the school became less important.

Second, I find that I'm seldom asked what I took or what my degree is, but the school carries weight.

On the other hand, the school doesn't do it by itself. Top schools admit top people; top people to outstanding things. You could do outstanding things even w/o the top degree, but it makes it a bit easier, and I've occasionally used it as a small crutch to say that "I'm Good", on a first introduction.

laverabe -1 points0 points 5 months ago[-]

I've done both campus and online courses, and can honestly say I learned far more with the online courses because you have to regulate your own time, as opposed to someone else doing it for you.

sanka -1 points0 points 5 months ago[-]

I can't answer that. People have different motivations for everything they do. Me, I work for the money so that I can provide for my family and my future. It helps that I like my job, but I would need more schooling to advance too. To me, it's not worth the debt load, and I still make a decent living. Perhaps a different line of work?

AN-DL [S] 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

I get what you mean, if I were 5 years younger, it would be a lot easier to make this decision. I mean, I'm a young 30, still no kids and like to play, but still, I wonder if I'm letting my pipe dreams of being a permanent student interfere with my judgment.

sanka 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

You are. You can not realistically make this education pay off for you. Sure, there are higher things to aspire to, and you can do those for free, you don't have to indebten yourself to do them.

AN-DL [S] 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

but there it is again, what do you mean by "paying off for me?" What if I just want to learn from the best? I mean, i didn't pick social welfare to get rich, so I'm obviously the type of person who does what she wants because it is meaningful in some other way. You really don't think that's worth a shitload of financial debt? Cuz I'm still not sure how I feel. I feel like it's an absurd debate - money vs. quality

sanka 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

Paying off for you is a real thing. It is concrete. You can touch the money that you make and the money you invest. You could feel the walls of your own house one day. This literally pays off for you.

You could also get another degree, and barely pay your rent while most of your hard earned money goes to pay off your loans. For at least the next 20-30 years. Eat whatever is cheapest at the store that week. Never have children. Live a spartan existence. Never travel.

But your work may be rewarding. You may be the best social worker in the world, and you might leave work with warm fuzzies in your heart every day. Of course that won't help you retire. Ever.

I would work whatever job you have, and look for another job that may value your skills more highly. I don't pretend to know what that is, but it's out there. You can have a job you like and one that pays well at the same time.

You have to choose.

AN-DL [S] 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

dammit.

marshallt 3 points4 points 5 months ago[-]

If you take the opportunity to find Professor Yoo and kick him in the nuts, then I think it would be worth it.

AN-DL [S] 5 points6 points 5 months ago[-]

yikes

marshallt 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

I'm not suggesting that you kick him in the nuts so hard that it causes him to feel pain or suffering equal with death and organ failure. I'm just talking about a good old fashion American nut-kicking. Oh and good luck with grad scool.

beerok 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

Congrats in Berkeley as well. I applied, but didn't get in, but i did get into a Master's Program at Oxford. Berkeley is actually more affordable than some other Master's Programs (I applied to Seattle and Arizona (~50,000 grand/year) even with the exchange rate, going to Oxford turned out to be cheaper). I'll be nearly 100K in debt, with a Master's Degree in World Archaeology, but I'm not worried. I learned alot, I'm learning alot, and getting to meet tons of contacts. I say don't worry and enjoy the program...you'll make it work, especially if you like it! Good Luck!

kimchee923 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

Congrats on getting accepted into Berkeley!

I got waitlisted there, and wound up taking myself off the waitlist and going to a school in the Cal State system. My main reasons were 1) I realized how much more it would cost to go to Berkeley (tuition + cost of living), and 2) I thought I would be happier living in Southern California instead (originally from the east coast).

I am in a 2 year program and am graduating in May. Overall it's been decent, but I do wonder how much better my experience would have been if I had held out for Berkeley. My program is okay - I love the curriculum and almost all my professors, but the school is pretty disorganized and lots of my classmates are idiots with terrible work ethic. So on the one hand, it's nice being one of the top students, but on the other I have had some serious challenges working with the stupid/lazy people (MSW programs are HUGE on group projects).

Also, my understanding is that Berkeley is one of the best places to go if you're interested in research. I am the only student in my cohort who is doing any type of research, and it's disheartening. So I think the biggest thing to consider is whether or not the academic orientation of the MSW program is right for you. If you don't want/need to spend a ton of $ and work your ass off for the grades, it may be worthwhile to look into Cal State programs. It's the path of least resistance, IMHO.

Feel free to PM me if you want any more info. Good luck!

AN-DL [S] 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

Thank you!!!!

BrainThrust 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

Before you make any final decisions, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read this post and the associated article: article reddit post

AN-DL [S] 4 points5 points 5 months ago[-]

Horse shit! I've never had a problem finding a job in my field. My problem is that I don't have the credentials for the license to get jobs with more power. And I figure that as long as I'm going to school, I might as well learn from the best, as I will in turn be presented with the best opportunities. I feel like the people in that article are people who didn't really know what they wanted, people who didn't really have the drive and capacity for the profession they were in. Just my opinion, of course.

liberalfag 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

I need to know more details about this "montain" before i can say anything.

kublakhan1816 1 point2 points 5 months ago* [-]

The only person that can make the expense of education worth it is you. I made lifelong friends and connections that are priceless. I also think that your degree should make you make more money in the long run. If you're going to get 100,000 dollars of debt to do a job that only pays 30,000, then of course not. 100,000 of debt is 1000 a month for 10 years. So to break even right out of college you have to make 12000 more a year. But your degree could definitely make you more marketable and possibly make more money through out your entire life. I think it's really up to you how hard you work and what you do with it. No one but you can say if that is going to be true for you. Every ones story is unique.

AN-DL [S] 2 points3 points 5 months ago[-]

thank you. this is what i wanted to hear. from somebody besides me.

EthicalReasoning 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

So to break even right out of college you have to bring home 12000 more a year.

ftfy

kublakhan1816 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

If you want to get nit picky, interest paid on student loans is tax deductible. (Maybe--you make a good point though.)

chaosatom 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

How much debt? If you can't can't ahead in you're field, then it might be worth it.

Do research on how much people in your field make when they get out of college. Ask some alumni. That's all i got :)

AN-DL [S] 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

god. i mean, berkeley graduate students end up doing pretty well. but then again it is social work! good advice, thank you.

Jewcifer 1 point2 points 5 months ago* [-]

Hahahaa, of fucking course not. My worst mistake in life was going to law school, and keep in mind I can actually make money as a lawyer. God only knows wtf a "masters in social welfare" will get you.

I don't use my degree now though, I have my own business, and do better then many of the local lawyers. I wish more then anything that I could do it over again without debt. If I didn't have debt, I'd be a wealthy man today.

Find some way to take what you know how to do and make real money with it. What is it that you do in social work? What sort of thing do you do that someone (the city, private individuals) might pay you to do? Can you find runaways? Could you run hoes? Let your imagination run wild for a bit, at least before you get yourself into debt.

JonasBrosSuck 4 points5 points 5 months ago[-]

do better than many of the local lawyers

wdonnell 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

Seriously, what law school did he/she go to? Tom's Law study and wonder emporium I would posit.

Edit: for awesomeness

AN-DL [S] 2 points3 points 5 months ago[-]

That's just it. What I want to do requires a State license. Sure, I could get one through some on-line course, but my desire is to actually get something out of the experience so that when I graduate, I'm actually worth more to my clients (my clients being mentally ill, homeless, drug addicted).

[deleted] 4 points5 points 5 months ago[-]

You need to somehow weigh the nonmonetary benefits of getting this degree (that you are so interested in), with the monetary debt you will incur. It is incorrect to simply look at the debt vs. your future income, since you clearly value the education and its applications for your future clients as much or more than your monetary income.

Difficult decision, and since none of us here on reddit know your preferences, we can't help you out too much. Good luck with your decision.

If you still can't decide after days of thinking, just go with you're gut. Then if a week later you feel upset about you're decision, then change it.

Edit: I think I should add that it doesn't seem like most of the people commenting here realize how baller the Berkeley social welfare program is. Congrats on getting in, and don't let people downplay the value of an education too much.

AN-DL [S] 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

that's good. i'm going to sleep easier tonight because of your comments.

stakkar 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

You should find clients that have more money vs mentally ill, homeless & drug addicted clients. Unless you want to be poor in which case who cares if you have a bunch of debt.

AN-DL [S] 3 points4 points 5 months ago[-]

god! my dad and all his friends seem to be hovering over this debate tonight. my dad's spent his life making money and being miserable, but that doesn't mean that i'm choosing to be poor. i just want to spend my time doing something i care about.

tablog 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

Long answer: no. Short answer: no.

College is a waste of fucking time.

AN-DL [S] 2 points3 points 5 months ago[-]

i'm sorry you feel that way. I wouldn't trade my scholastic years for anything, they were brilliant.

Dokterrock 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

Yeah, not sure about this. It depends on what you're studying. It might be a waste of money, but not a waste of time in any way. I learned SO MUCH more in college and grad school than I ever could/would have on my own.

Perhaps the key word in that last sentence is "would" (I have degrees in music composition), but I would have been hard pressed to be able to find composers who would have given me free lessons along with all of the necessary theory instruction and hundreds of chances I got (no, was required) to play with much more knowledgeable and talented musicians than I.

And no, it's not just something you can learn by studying and practicing. You need other people to teach and to guide you.

It's hard to get all that experience for free, and even harder/impossible to learn it on your own. Yes, there are scores of software engineers and people from almost every other occupation on reddit that will disagree with this, but for my field of study and occupation, college was absolutely essential. And while it has saddled me with a mountain of debt from which I have no notion of recovering, it was worth every penny and every minute spent, because a) I am now a very good musician, and b) I don't give a fuck about money.

timdaw 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

that's me in a nutshell. except maybe i will regret that decision two years from now when i want to pop out a kid.

Dokterrock 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

It all depends on what you value. If you value learning your craft from very intelligent people who will, because of your long-term association with them, always be there to assist you and answer questions and write letters of recommendation for you and put you in touch with relevant people, then yes, college and graduate school are both worth it.

If you go into school with the expected outcome that you will make shitloads of money, make cronies who will hire you for no other reason than the fact that they know you, college is also useful for that, especially if you're a business major. That's not to say it doesn't happen in almost every field.

Funny thing is, college is also very useful for learning, and while my education probably did cost a lot more than its true value, I wouldn't trade either of my bachelor's or master's degrees for the people I met OR the time I got to spend working on my craft for several hours a day for so many years. And again, don't get me wrong, for several career paths, college is not necessary, but it ain't never gonna hurt. ESPECIALLY if your degree is from Berkeley.

Just wait to pop out your kid until after you're done with school and into a job. It's a lot easier that way.

AN-DL [S] 2 points3 points 5 months ago[-]

THANK YOU. THANK YOU. This is what my gut has been telling me. I honestly feel that I wasted several years of expensive education in the past simply because I didn't know what I wanted, and now that I have this gratuitous second chance at using education to reach my goals, I really do want to let myself get swept away. At least a bit.

toothlesswhores -3 points-2 points 5 months ago[-]

LOL!

AN-DL [S] 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

explain yourself! is it that ridiculous to want a great education?!

URGENTCAPSLOCKGUY -3 points-2 points 5 months ago[-]

I don't think a masters in social welfare is "a great education".

AN-DL [S] -2 points-1 points 5 months ago* [-]

god, i hate to think what you do for a living! are you my dad? (my dad designs prisons for a living and thinks I'm wasting my brain by helping the needy). You sound just like him

URGENTCAPSLOCKGUY -1 points0 points 5 months ago[-]

And you've never considered the fact that we're right? Incredible.

laverabe -2 points-1 points 5 months ago[-]

That's because welfare has a bad name, mostly because a majority of the funds allocated to those in need get wasted through the massive bureaucratic process. Thus, devoting your life to social welfare is not exactly a common occurrence, at least on Reddit. That's not to say it's not important, the welfare of society is of concern to us all, but our current welfare system is a disgrace.

AN-DL [S] 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

you said it! that's why i think my already-jaded self could really get something useful out of going back to school. I mean, I would be going to school with an already well-informed agenda. My fantasy (at least professionally) is to use my fancy Berkeley connections to actually do something positive for the populations I've spent so many years working with.

laverabe 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

follow your heart, as long as it keeps food on the table.

AN-DL [S] 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

that's what i'm leaning toward. thank you!

toothlesswhores -1 points0 points 5 months ago[-]

And chill out.

AN-DL [S] 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

i'm definitely not chill about this. wish i was. it's a huge decision. that's why i'm asking for real advice.

ashmadai 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

My advice would be to get a MSW form a cheaper college. You will still get a job that utilizes it, and not have the high end debt. My gf graduated last May with her MSW, and she is currently working a BA job because nobody was hiring the other positions in our area.

toothlesswhores -2 points-1 points 5 months ago[-]

Did you compare average revenue in the prospective fields to the actual cost of obtaining the education you need to get this license of yours? What do the numbers say? Take a deep breath, and make a list of everything you need to know in order to make an informed decision, then google your ass off for a couple of hours. Then chill out.

AN-DL [S] 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

well, in the field i'm interested in, there is money to be made, especially for those few who are both motivated and good at what they do. so yeah, i think i could keep my basic needs met and attend berkeley. if that's what you were looking for.
I'm gonna fuckin do it. I'm gonna do it because I think I'm really perfect for it.
But I'm still gonna stress like crazy about it. It's logical. Money is money.

toothlesswhores -3 points-2 points 5 months ago[-]

And sentences start with capital letters.lol.

AN-DL [S] -1 points0 points 5 months ago[-]

and they don't begin with "and," silly! Wow, my first time actually speaking on reddit, and I'm already a proper grammar nazi. excellent.

toothlesswhores -2 points-1 points 5 months ago[-]

Well done. Obviously Berkley material.

toothlesswhores -3 points-2 points 5 months ago[-]

Do a cost/return comparative study, professor.

The_Decoy 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

If you have a defined path to advancement I say hell yes. Especially if you are able to get reimbursement from your work. And if not at least you would have your Masters and be that much more marketable for a similar position at another company.

EthicalReasoning 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

forget your career and glass ceilings and the debt, if it's going to make you happier, do it.

if you're just paper chasing, doesn't it seem a little odd to spend a ton of money to make a little more money? it's social work, not derivatives trading, how much more are you really going to make? do the math, how much are you going to spend on school yourself vs how much you'll make when you're done? then how long will it take to pay back the loans? whats the pay difference?

of course, if you have someone else (company, govt, sugardaddy, moms tit) sponsoring your education, definitely do it.

AN-DL [S] 1 point2 points 5 months ago[-]

godiwish

echoes_1992 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

...ooooh short answer 'yes' with an if; long answer 'no' with a but...

sardinski 0 points1 point 5 months ago[-]

No.

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