Client won't pay after doing design work. Help?

Chronoraven · 1 year

There was no legal contract stating you were at fault if the job on their end fell through, therefore, you cannot be held liable as such. You were contacted to create graphical assets for them to use. You completed your task and they failed to communicate their needs until it was too late. He's likely making all of this up so that he can scare you into charging nothing for your work. As a precaution, make sure you gather up all of your communications and emails with this guy and let him know that your job as a designer is just that; to design. You are not their chief marketing director. It is not your job to see through the success of a project.

tl;dr He's scaring you with large sums of money and legal threats to get you to give him your work for free. Do not back down, gather your information, and make sure he pays for the work you've done.

Jeffu · 1 year

Don't ever work without a contract. Red flags came up just a few sentences in when I read this.

I'd really just chalk it up as a bad experience and move on... in a way you're fortunate this only wasted two days or so of your life and hopefully taught you a valuable lesson. He can't do anything to you so I wouldn't worry about that.

scottb84 · 1 year

Dear [Dude’s name],

Re: Invoice [number of invoice], outstanding balance

I am in receipt of your correspondence dated [date of email] indicating that you are unable or unwilling to pay the balance owing on invoice [number of invoice], dated [date of invoice].

All work done in connection with this invoice was completed per the instructions communicated to me. That the underlying project was unsuccessful, while unfortunate, does not affect your obligation to compensate me for work completed.

I ask that you pay the outstanding balance as soon as possible, but no later than [2 weeks from date of this letter]. If payment is not received, legal action may be taken against you without further notice.

Govern yourself accordingly,

[Your name]

moyno85 · 1 year

To be fair, it does sound like you dicked them around a bit.

gifappel · 1 year

Firstly, get a contract together. First because it protects you and your client in situations like these, secondly it communicates that you're a serious professional and people who aren't willing to sign a contract are probably not worth working with.

http://vimeo.com/22053820

Secondly it sounds like this guy is a douche who pulls shit like this on a regular basis to fuck over naive designers, it's only two days so maybe you wanna write this one off to experience. Pointing out the logical fallacies in this guys arguments probably won't do much since I'm sure he's well aware of them himself, he is just a dishonest fuck.

And remember, just in case you are the vengeful type, revenge is a dish best served cold.

jaymeekae · 1 year

You can't use istockphoto files in logos.

chickenclaw · 1 year

You're not a professional until you've been screwed over once.

3Dartwork · 1 year

No company can ever sue you if the project is lost because their client decided they didn't want your work if there is no contract. Period. However, there is absolutely no excuse being 90 minutes late to work on a two day project when you're being paid $22/hr. That's very unprofessional. Not sure why he paid you $22/hr but offered $11/hr full time job. That sounds fishy, sorry.

On every job I have ever done freelance, I always ALWAYS make sure the client is satisfied in every way before I consider my project done. I may only have 2 days to work on it, but if there is something the client is really disappointed about, I do what I can to fix it (even if it's at my expense....designing isn't costing you actual money, so you're not at a loss).

If they were considering a temp-to-hire I would have bent over BACKWARDS to make everyone happy before (and showing up late is not going to cut it - I have a pet peeve of that).

TL;DR You didn't seem to show professionalism very well here, but he can't sue you at all because there was no written contract stating you would owe if the project failed. No company does that.

fowleryo · 1 year

A couple things. It sounds like you did a terrible job, based on what he's saying. But it also sounds like they're trying to scare you into not collecting what you're owed.

You need a contract in the future. You also need to better your work ethic. Showing up late on an agreed upon time is fucking lame. Doing shotty work is lamer.

If I were you, I'd move on. $350 isn't worth all the stress, imo.

mxlnt · 1 year

DUDE. Always, ALWAYS get it in writing and with signatures. Rookie mistake. By the way, you don't owe them shit!

TomDiddle · 1 year

Get a lawyer.

ChemicallyCastrated · 1 year

I'm curious to see the work you did.

crashsite54 · 1 year

Haha this is funny. If nothing was signed (official or even back of napkin) then you can expect to never get paid. But no way you can be held liable for anything that went wrong. Even if he goes to his lawyer (which he is not going to do) he has nothing on you. Please do a follow up.

WestonP · 1 year

Guy is a scumbag, file suit in small claims court against him. The judge will be far more reasonable.

thetinguy · 1 year

Sue him. Take him to small claims. Judges there are reasonable, so you should be OK.

MenuBar · 1 year

The comments here are all good advice, but a professional artist reads between the lines. This "COMPNAY" is actually requesting further services from you...

When they mention "lawyers" it simply means "My gasoline isn't sweet enough" so you may want to stop by around 11 am and add some sugar. One large bag should suffice.

I hope you were a good enough employee those 2 days to obtain a short list of their clientele. Get good and plastered this weekend and visit as many as you can early monday morning and explain to them how working with COMPNAY makes their day more interesting. Vomiting should be charged on your invoice at one and a half times your rate per puddle.

Also, you know where they live, right? Do they enjoy seeing their children alive? If they do, you can effectively use this fact as leverage in your negotiations. If such negotiations prove lengthy, remember, there are 10 fingertips per child and postage should be factored in.

These are just a few tips us professionals learn as time goes on. I hope this helps you enjoy a long and rewarding career cursing bitterly at an emotionless computer monitor.

smokinjoints · 1 year

Sorry. No advice. Just wanted to wish you the best of luck, that guy sounds like a dick.

_SOKK_ · 1 year

I'll echo what everyone else is saying. Take him to small claims court. Bill him for the hours that you worked (minus your tardiness). You being late the second day has no bearing if he allowed you to continue working when you showed up. You're due what you worked for.

mistergookey · 1 year

Just out of curiosity, why were you an hour and a half late on one of the days?

RodrigoBravo · 1 year

lawyer up!

jessicatron · 1 year

I hate to be this guy- but this is why you have contracts. Above that, this is why you don't hand work to people until they pay you. I realize that withholding work until you're paid isn't always realistic- but I still always do it.

This guy is using ridiculous math. The client was his, it was his job to find a freelancer to get the work done for the project that he lost. If you couldn't do it, it was his job to find someone who could (within the deadline). You do NOT owe them money for a lost client- that's rubbish.

Also, as a freelancer- you absolutely do not have to use your own stock photography.That's also rubbish.

This company is either straight-up lying on purpose to try to bully you, or they have no fucking clue what they're talking about. Either way, you don't owe them shit, but they owe YOU your fees. Unfortunately, you didn't get a contract AND your fee is so small right now that is it really worth going to court over? This is a hard knocks lesson in "why you need to always cover your ass". I cover mine double: contract + client doesn't get work until I get paid (unless I'm working with a repeat wonderful client- but the minute one of them makes me regret not getting a contract with them for small jobs- this rule will change).

cartooncorpse · 1 year

You're a dumbass, and you do not have the resources to win without destroying yourself. That is the current popular trend.

pyxlated · 1 year

This is why you always use a contract. On the other hand, it also means they don't have any legal ground to stand on.

waynethetreemayne · 1 year

My advice: LLC.

GiantPineapple · 1 year

Your ability to make threats here is based on how small claims court works where you are. As a prose claimant, you may be able to create a big headache for him without doing very much work yourself. If that's the case, ignore his BS, press hard to be paid, and get your complaint drafted up so that it's ready to go on short notice - courts take a long time to process stuff. If it's not easy to litigate where you are, an asshole like this is going to know it, and you won't get very far. Chalk it up as a learning experience.

I would say that the value of a contract is very much defined by the cost of enforcing it in your local courts. Not only would I not work without a contract, I would take a deposit up front, and never let your client get 'ahead' of you (ie - have more services delivered than money paid), unless they're old, known-good clients.

chkris · 1 year

You're gonna win this one!
The cards are stacked against him and he knows it.
And the good news is, you only need one.
1) He makes it sound like he doesn't need to pay you because they didn't get the project. Win !!
2) He gives you work and then after the work is done, he wants to negotiate your pay. LOL
Unless of course you agreed to talk about your rate for this project after a few days. If he has that in writing, then you're probably F'd
3) $ 25 ? And he's complaining ? Wut ?
The second you walk into the courtroom you will have the judge on your side.
$ 11 ... wtf ?

Your lawyer is going to have a field day with this one!
I've been there. Don't feel insecure.
You don't want to work for that guy ever again. And stop sending him emails and stop talking to him.
Keep your mouth shut and let your lawyer do the talking from now on.
That being said, the small claims court is what you want.

jarydf · 1 year

I would move on. Don't waste time chasing $350 you will never get. You said you had lots of work on so get to it. Guys like this will be a fairly regular occurrence in your professional life, get better at spotting them. You can try to get him back but just know he will be enjoying the fight, watching you get riled up and getting pleasure out of feeling like a big tough guy. If you take it to court and win he will brush it off as a dodgy judge etc and never think he did anything wrong. You will not be teaching him a lesson, his brain does not work like that. Maybe warn off friends and acquaintances etc but that is about it that is useful.

Addition: Also we always quote a job or get an agreed budget before hand with a confirmation email that the client agrees to the budget. The thing about having a job going and trying you out is a pretty old trick.

DON'T EVER WORK WITHOUT A CONTRACT.

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