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Dear GRRM, (self.gameofthrones)
submitted 12 months ago by HISTORYBLAST
Please oh please just write every single episode from here on out. Good motherfucking heavens you big beautiful train conductor of a man, bravo.
Oh also TWOW plz.
[–]Darth_HobbesVarys' Little Birds 121 points122 points123 points 12 months ago
All human writing is now to be done by GRRM.
[–][deleted] 108 points109 points110 points 12 months ago
Once upon time there were 3 little piglets . . until one decided to stab the other through the throat and eat his corpse while the other piggy watched.
[–]NHBHouse Baratheon 162 points163 points164 points 12 months ago
Three little pigs... between them stands a common sellsword. Who lives... who dies.
[–]LuckWillows 10 points11 points12 points 12 months ago
I would read this story to my kids, if I had kids.
[–]kragmoorHodor Hodor Hodor 12 points13 points14 points 12 months ago
3 kids stand in hypothesis. a vial of sperm stands between them...
[–]SteampunkVillainHouse Reed 6 points7 points8 points 12 months ago
"Sorry to inform you of this Mr NHB, but your Little Jimmy scrunched up the assignment his teacher gave him and when she told him off, he laughed at her and said that power is merely a shadow on the wall, and even a big round lady can leave a very small shadow."
[–]NHBHouse Baratheon 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
That's fine but if I find my little midget buying prostitutes with my family's hard earned cash then I'm gonna have to punish him.
[–]oer6000 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
Therapy bait if there ever was one.
[–]kigertHouse Lannister 20 points21 points22 points 12 months ago
The first little piggy was served with a honey glaze with a dash of paprika along with a mug of mulled wine. The second little piggy was barbecued in the Summer Isle fashion and served with a fine arbor red. The third little piggy was captured on the way home and baked into a lovely pie to be served to all his remaining kin.
[–]CrustyChebsHouse Dayne 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
I love the descriptions of food in ASoIaF, it really transports me there.
Will definitely be purchasing this at the end of the month.
EDIT: Tomorrow, even. Where has this month gone...
[–]sravllHouse Dayne 9 points10 points11 points 12 months ago
"BaaBaa Blacksheep have you any wool? No sir. I have no wool. I shall take no wife, I shall father no children, I shall live and die at my post."
[–]Raven6169 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
needed a humpty dumpty sat on the wall
[–]Jason3d1 4 points5 points6 points 12 months ago
Two of the pigs were probably plowing each other behind the scenes too. You left that part out.
[–]KainotomiuThe Iron Bank Will Have Its Due 10 points11 points12 points 12 months ago
And they were all triplets.
[–]bakedaslaysDirewolves 17 points18 points19 points 12 months ago
If GRRM could write my life story I would let him.
[–]Darth_HobbesVarys' Little Birds 109 points110 points111 points 12 months ago
You're a sick man. Don't you love your friends and family?
[–]ShannonMS81 75 points76 points77 points 12 months ago
Maybe he just has a thing for his sister.
[–]CodesharkHouse Reyne 12 points13 points14 points 12 months ago
Considering he'd be the main character starting out, I am not sure if he'd be able to care.
[–]swirkHouse Targaryen 17 points18 points19 points 12 months ago
Be sure to tell your loved ones how much they mean to you before they are killed and you're left with your annoying little dick nephew.
[–]AnimatedSnake 11 points12 points13 points 12 months ago
Holy shit you are a brave man...
[–]Bianator 4 points5 points6 points 12 months ago
Have fun being a loveless, foul mouthed, orphaned eunuch.
[–]HISTORYBLAST[S] 7 points8 points9 points 12 months ago
I'M FOR IT.
[–]latarianDothraki Bloodriders 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
I just pictured this as a news report. Awesome.
[–]I_DUCK_FOGSHouse Hightower 4 points5 points6 points 12 months ago
"In other news, rapes worldwide are up 8,580%."
[–]whizzingfizbeeHere We Stand 182 points183 points184 points 12 months ago
Only problem is we'd never get the last few books and he'd take a 6 month hiatus after every episode.
[–]RagdollPhysEd 3 points4 points5 points 12 months ago
Gabe Newell of Valve Software offers to make Game of Thrones games
[–]SupahSeppe 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
That would make for a wonderful wait. dreamy sigh
[–]decon_Sellswords 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago*
You can have this. (Just now I realized that George's hand is a bit misplaced)
[–]paleo_dragonHouse Reyne 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
I'd watch it
[–]MrChurchSirNight's Watch -254 points-253 points-252 points 12 months ago
I can't believe how lazy he is. He claims that he just works that way, but there's no excuse for promising a book in a year, then not publishing it for five. Also, he's old. He's gotta get to it. He may not outlive the books.
[–]b4t3rWe Do Not Sow 22 points23 points24 points 12 months ago
You do realize that he writes other books, attends conventions on a fairly regular basis, does other things not related to aSoIaf and has a wife. The only time he hasn't finished a book rather quickly was aFFC and aDWD because those are technically the same book and he had to restructure the entire story after aSoS.
[–]Quetz23Unsullied 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
Meh Stephen Ericksons series is twice the size of GRRM's and it took him half the time. Im still on the "be patient" side though. The man can take however long he wants- Im hooked for life.
[–]jbot84 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
Providing he doesn't die - then we'd have only the television series to satiate our need for closure.
[–]Quetz23Unsullied 3 points4 points5 points 12 months ago
Meh he's not THAT old and his health seems to be okay from what Ive heard. Although he could just not be talking about any major health issues he has.
EDIT: And besides it seems kind of ghoulish and selfish to be hoping he doesnt die before finishing the series doesnt it? Id rather he just not die yet =/
[–][deleted] 12 months ago*
[–]b4t3rWe Do Not Sow 7 points8 points9 points 12 months ago
He's already written roughly 500 pages in the book from what I've last heard. The book will be done withing 3-4 years at the most, and considering aDWD only came out last year and was the size of a tome I'd say that's pretty fast.
[–]gandalfblue -1 points0 points1 point 12 months ago
I'd imagine with the show he's contractually obliged to have the book ready by the time the show gets there(hopefully it makes it that far), I think its standard practice for adapting works still in progress.
[–]KashmeerHouse Mallister 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
I wouldn't imagine that at all and furthermore I strongly hope it isn't the case.
Writing under pressure like that will degrade the story, characters and just about everything. It could strain Gurm and even burn him out, I think a lot of what MrChurchSir up there is saying reeks of entitlement.
[–]karanjThe Iron Bank Will Have Its Due 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
For that matter, aSoS is going to be two seasons, and I'd strongly suspect aFfC/aDwD will be 3... There time yet to get tWoW out the door before it gets to the pressure point.
[–]Urfubar12 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
What have you published recently?
[–]KhamanVRed Priests of R'hllor 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
I write; I'm not majorly published, but I can tell you that Mr. Church is a giant stone wall of fucking stupid.
[–]johansoloHouse Umber 65 points66 points67 points 12 months ago
GRRM: Writes some of the most popular books in the current day and one of the, if not the, most popular television shows.
MrChurchSir: "I can't believe how lazy he is."
[–][deleted] 12 months ago
[–]johansoloHouse Umber 16 points17 points18 points 12 months ago
"He could write literally one page a day and have a the book finished in two years."
And then he'd be just another pop-book factory. Stephen King is the exception, not the rule.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
Even Stephen King isn't much of an exception any more. I think his last really great book might have been Needful Things.
[–]thosewholeft 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
Maybe I just remember them being good since I was young when I read them but I really enjoyed Desperation/The Regulators, Insomnia, and Hearts in Atlantis. Haven't read any of his books in the last 10 years or so.
[–]doctork91House Umber 26 points27 points28 points 12 months ago
You've probably never published a book, so you may not realize that there's a lot of other work that goes into it such as editing and book tours. Add in the fact that he's producing a television series on top of all the extremely long term planning of the most intricate fantasy series and yeah, it's gonna take a while.
[–]HISTORYBLAST[S] 42 points43 points44 points 12 months ago
oh you gotta go dude. you're the worst.
[–]Drips 25 points26 points27 points 12 months ago
He's like the AT&T of people.
[–]redartificeFaceless Men 8 points9 points10 points 12 months ago
Ladies and gentlemen, we are witnessing Karma Suicide. Tell your children.
[–]phobotron 16 points17 points18 points 12 months ago
Tolkien wrote LOTR in 12. What point are you trying to make?
[–]runsoutofspaceHouse Martell 13 points14 points15 points 12 months ago
I think Bronn said clearly that there is no cure for being you.
[–]Atzend 19 points20 points21 points 12 months ago
I think I missed the part where you were a writer that has been through the creative process involved in writing a very intricate novel with several main characters and separate but connecting plot lines. Also, what the fuck is writer's block? I bet GRRM never has to deal with that.
[–]KashmeerHouse Mallister 7 points8 points9 points 12 months ago
He has a life outside of writing, it's not for you to dictate when or how he writes it, or even if he writes it at all. It's his creation and as an artist it is up to him how to fulfil his creative vision.
He owes you nothing.
[–]kuiper3Dragons 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
Would you rather he wrote fast and ended up with a shitty story that all the fans will bitch about, until the end of time?
[–]phobotron 10 points11 points12 points 12 months ago
I get what you are trying to say, but all I have to ask is: are you a writer yourself? Because chances are, you are not. Writing, however cliched it may sound, comes from the heart. You pick your brain day after day, and try to drag poetic and poignant lines out of it. Many times these lines are pulled out kicking and screaming. Writing is a hard process. There are guidelines you can follow to try to become a more prolific writer, but guidelines are just that: a guide. You can probably force 5 pounds of shit out your ass everyday if you tried hard enough, but no one wants to see your shit. You only bring them in when your shit starts producing diamonds.
[–]kuiper3Dragons 5 points6 points7 points 12 months ago
MrChurchSir. Instead of insulting you again, I will try to explain something. ASOIAF is GRRM's life's work. For him, this story is essentially his baby. There are multiple psychological archetypes that exist to characterize different personalities. One that I can relate with is the creator shadow from the PMAI. That shadow is "perfectionism". So much time is spent on small detail that the work gets delayed or is never completed.
ASOIAF is a series, any additional books that release will have noticeable degradation in writing if it were rushed.
[–]ShakerzamanHouse Dayne 9 points10 points11 points 12 months ago
GRRM is not your bitch - Neil Gaiman
[–]alittler 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
You are a fucking moron. 1 page a day would take 3 years to write the last novel, never mind rewriting the entire book a few times over, never mind actually thinking of what to write, never mind having 18,000 different POVs and characters to keep in check.
Writing a novel is more than just writing.
[–]TheBSReportHot Pie! 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
I don't want 1 page a day, I want page turning awesomeness. If that takes him 10 years so be it. I want a book as good as a SOS.
Sure you can write x amount every day but righting a good story takes time and I rather wait for a good story than get a 1 year rush for fans.
[–]CoffeeholickHouse Redwyne 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
Sure, I could churn out a three hundred page manuscript in that timeframe too. Doesn't mean it would be worth the paper I printed it on. He's a free man, it's his bloody books not yours. Leave him be, write them yourself if your so prickly.
[–]WorkingNinj 6 points7 points8 points 12 months ago
Wow, I think this is the most downvoted post I've seen on Reddit that hasn't been deleted. Good on you for staying with the ship.
Now, he has already said that "the ending" is in safe hands if he is to die, but the man isn't that old, jesus.
And authors work differently. His work is complex, takes a lot of thinking not to fall into plot holes and follows a lot of characters. The fact that this is not his sole job, but that he also interact with his fans and writes other stuff only makes me respect him more. So I understand the frustration of "jesus christ just finish the books god damnit", but on behalf of myself and a lot of other fangirls and boys out there; Kindly shut your faceflaps, at least he gives us something to look forward to.
[–]hearshotFire And Blood 27 points28 points29 points 12 months ago
George R.R. Martin is not your bitch.
[–]NotlimTheGreat 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
What the hell? Is he your indentured servent? The only way I would agree with your sentiment is if he was complaining about financial problems or the like. If he retired right this moment we would all be sad, but to feel ENTITLED to his future work is just total bullshit, much less entitled to him doing it faster.
[–]skralingHouse Baratheon of Dragonstone 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago*
I don't fully agree. Of course he is entitled to write at any pace he wants or to just stop writing, but this guy has become famous and made a ton of money by telling a story. Most of the people following it are doing so because they expect closure to it. As a writer, you also have a responsibility to your readers, specially if it is a saga as complex as ASOAF, so just quitting withouth bringing it to an end would be somehow unethical. What if he dies and leaves the story unconcluded after I bought his 5 books and each season of the show in special-edition blueray? Of course that one can differ to this viewpoint and be into ASOAF not chasing the circle to be closed, but instead, as buddhists say, because "the road is the destination by itself". Not me. I want an epic end to the tale. I do believe he has an implicit obligation to comply because, well, that is what was promised to us all, don't you agree?
[–]NotlimTheGreat 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
I can't really. Popularity/following, regardless of whether its 1 person or a billion, shouldn't automatically call into unspoken responsibilities. It wouldn't be nice if he decided to stop, but he never claimed he would finish the series(that i know of), and theres no reason he should need to. What if he fell ill and was not able to write/type anymore. Lots of people would claim he should record himself so someone can type it out, but say he didn't want to do that due to time constraints(like, life expectancy cut short a few years). Again, not totally nice but backed up with a good reason. Same goes for if hes not sick-its his life. He gets to choose how he spends his thousands of hours time, we're just all happy he spends much of it writing rather than many other things he could occupy his own life with.
[–]KashmeerHouse Mallister 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago*
I do not agree, he was writing, I imagine, this story primarily for himself, sure it's great that others liked it and bought into it but you must understand that your money did not buy into a contract, Gurm is not obliged to do anything for you. Though of course he may like to, I'm sure he wants to satiate the fans but we must allow him the courtesy of doing it in his own time.
[–]mildcaseofdeath 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
I agree that it sucks to be told a timeframe for something and having it pushed back again and again. But think about the scale: one POV book character could easily have a book of their story alone. Imagine the size a white board would have to be to put down the plot structure in the broad strokes. And add to that book tours, the show, etc. As I said, one year turning into five is pretty shitty for ones expectations, but it's far from unimaginable (also, was there not a complete rewrite during that time period?).
[–]alittler 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
Have you not seen how excessively long they are? I doubt you would be able to type that many words in as long, never mind writing a coherent plot
[–]KashmeerHouse Mallister 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
Excessive seems to imply a bad thing.
[–]MBSquaredHouse Lannister 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
[–]seangugHouse Connington 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
You're just an oathbreaker, ser.
[–]yocxlRed Priests of R'hllor 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
This isn't constructive criticism. This is ridiculous moaning from some "writer" who has no real concept of how writing actually works. And he's rehashing the stupid old "LOL GRRM IS OLD, BETTER FINISH ASOIAF B4 HE DIES" thing.
[–]KellyCommaRoy 119 points120 points121 points 12 months ago
Ignore this reddit post and please continue work on the final two books in the series.
[–]insaneHoshi 16 points17 points18 points 12 months ago
And dont get revenge on us by killing off like Arya or anything
[–]kragmoorHodor Hodor Hodor 20 points21 points22 points 12 months ago
i'm sorry can you repeat that?
[–]TheRealDevDevHouse Seaworth 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
a link to sbnation? didn't think anyone around here liked sports!
[–]The_Milk_manHouse Stark 13 points14 points15 points 12 months ago
His wife said she'd leave him if he killed off Arya, so he promised not to kill her.
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 12 months ago
I imagine that she must have said something like "OO I love Arya. Don't kill her! You can kill everyone else. JUST. NOT. HER" to which he replied "Got it!"
[–]MyLittlePillagerWhat Is Dead May Never Die 12 points13 points14 points 12 months ago
[–]Rhinoceros_Party 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
He never said which character he promised not to kill at his wife's request.
[–]TheonenerdThe Night Is Dark And Full Of Terrors 7 points8 points9 points 12 months ago
So TWOW and ADOS are confirmed for being the last ones?
[–]KellyCommaRoy 8 points9 points10 points 12 months ago
That's the plan for now, but after what happened with AFFC/ADWD I feel anything could happen.
[–]yocxlRed Priests of R'hllor 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
GRRM has admitted that himself. He plans for two more, but it could (and probably will, IMO) grow.
[–]Prof_XavierChildren of the Forest 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
Unless, he's also said, Dies first.
[–]HISTORYBLAST[S] 4 points5 points6 points 12 months ago
I'll blast you.
[–]KellyCommaRoy 4 points5 points6 points 12 months ago
Only if it's with history.
[–]kragmoorHodor Hodor Hodor 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
can i blast you with science? sweet powdery science
[–]The-DudemeisterFaceless Men 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
Or final 3.
[–]TjGallagherHouse Umber 10 points11 points12 points 12 months ago
Train conductor part made me laugh. he would be a feared conductor
[–]kragmoorHodor Hodor Hodor 11 points12 points13 points 12 months ago
there are no brakes on this rape train
[–]DamselUnderStress 11 points12 points13 points 12 months ago
While I was impressed by this episode and can only dream of someday being asked to write an episode of an adaptation of a book I have written, I wouldn't want all episodes to be like this one. That would be like having a rich, sumptuous feast for every meal. There's a time and a place for what we saw tonight - and we have the writing team and producers to thank for helping us pace ourselves along the way!
[–]Veracity01 4 points5 points6 points 12 months ago
I hate to have to agree with you.. Too much isn't a good thing.
[–]SweatpantsDVHouse Dayne 13 points14 points15 points 12 months ago
book spoiler SoS
[–]dstamHouse Selmy 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
He's gonna run out soon
He'll just make incest babies and kill them
[–][deleted] 42 points43 points44 points 12 months ago
It took him 11 years to write books 4 and 5, which were originally one book (and had to be broken up and occur at the same time).
If you want the series to not go on hiatus for a decade, you'll not give GRRM more ways to ignore actually finishing the books. As it is, it's likely it will have to go on hiatus at some point already given that he has two more books left in the series, and he refuses to commit to a time frame. We might get book 6 in time to keep up with the show, but book 7? Good luck with that. The man is stubborn and will not settle. They will probably have to slow down the show, spreading out material over multiple seasons and spreading seasons further apart, sooner than later, in order to not outpace the books.
TL;DR - Ask anyone who has been a fan of the books for more than a couple years (and had to wait, and listen to his crap, and all the other drama and nonsense). They'll tell you how bad an idea this is. It's going to take him long enough to finish the books as it is, and it would be overly optimistic to think he will do even that before the TV show catches up.
[–]evanthesquirrelHere We Stand 19 points20 points21 points 12 months ago
TL:DR for TL:DR GRRM is like Douglas Adams: He loves deadlines and the whizzing noise they make as they fly by
[–]pop_pop_dudeHouse Mallister 3 points4 points5 points 12 months ago
Like Douglas Adams, GRRM should write an episode or two of Doctor Who... BUT NOT UNTIL AFTER ASOIAF IS FINISHED!!!!
But then he'd just take the Doctor's remaining regenerations, and have the TARDIS blowup
[–]smokey_smokestackMoon Brothers 30 points31 points32 points 12 months ago
Important note, he didn't have a hit TV show to keep up with when he took 11 years for books 4 & 5. He knows he can't take as long, especially since so many of the main actors are kids. Book 3 will be 2 seasons, book 4 & 5 will be at least 2 seasons. Hopefully Winds of Winter is out within 4 years, then they can split that book up into two seasons. So basically he has 6 years to write two books and finish the series before the show catches up. Stephen King write at least a 1,000-page book a year. I have faith that George can do it if he puts his mind to it.
Edit: nothing important
[–]oer6000 9 points10 points11 points 12 months ago
But a lot of King's novels are stand alone's most of the time with only small references to previous works.
GRRM has to tie in a world with over 400 characters as of last reckoning.
[–]Quetz23Unsullied 4 points5 points6 points 12 months ago
I guess you've never read "Malazan Book of the Fallen" then :P
[–]svenhoek86House Targaryen 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
Which was why it took so long for AFFC and ADWD to come out. He had to tie everything together. Which, if you read ADWD, he started to do rather well. I think that the hard part was in those two books, and now that he has a layout it should go a bit easier. The pieces are in almost in place for the end game, and that's usually one of the easiest parts to write. The difficulty comes from finding a way to bring everyone together while making sense, and he's done that in ADWD.
[–]oer6000 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
But there are still plot lines that are barely out of their infancy.
[These are all spoilers so don't even google them if you've not finished ADWD]The sun's son, and the problems associated with his Phaeton-like fall, Moqorro and his host and the host's issues, the mummer's dragon and the problems he brings with his golden skulls.
All of that is nowhere near resolved.
I personally think GRRM is gonna have a character fire sale death where many main characters die in a huge battle.
[–]svenhoek86House Targaryen 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
Oh for sure. I DO NOT think Dany will make it back to Westeros in WoW either. I think she makes a pit stop in Valyria before making it there.
But my point is that while there are still plenty of side stories to be told and dealt with, the foundation for what is to come is laid, and I think that he can just write now, instead of having to pour over every other book to make sure he isn't creating plot holes or contradictions. The house hasn't even begun to be built yet however. I think this ends up as an 8 part series to be honest, but Martin has about 2000 pages left to finish everything up, so I wouldn't put it past him.
Yeah 7 looks a long shot with the end of ADWD.
[–]braddletoad 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
Also...cocaine is a helluva drug.
[–]gorillabitches5000House Targaryen 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
Stephen King also took an ungodly amount of time to finish up his own 7 book series (The Dark Tower) which saw years in between the books. I want George to take as much time as he possibly can and finish them right.
[–]smokey_smokestackMoon Brothers 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
right, he took like 40 years haha, but he was never racing against a tv show.
[–]Prof_XavierChildren of the Forest 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
He said he wants it out by 2015
[–]Botron 7 points8 points9 points 12 months ago
I think they've already said that book three will be split into two seasons. I also imagine they'll follow 4 and 5 chronologically and basically combine them. Given each of those books is longer than book 3, 4 and 5 combined could easily be three seasons, and possible 4. That means we have at least 5 more seasons before we get to book 6 material.
[–]omnomonist 4 points5 points6 points 12 months ago
This link should clear some things up. ASOS will be two seasons, and AFFC and are to be told chronologically. I've also read somewhere that Martin has said he will start writing episodes for the show if it catches up to the books.
[–]domasinHouse Seaworth 3 points4 points5 points 12 months ago
So he'd pull a Hitchhiker's Guide where he starts in one medium first and finishes in another?
[–]guyabaNymeria's Wolfpack 4 points5 points6 points 12 months ago
You accidentally a book.
That would... well, it would be a solution. But as a long time reader of the books, I'd be kind of pissed if I had to stop watching the HBO series to avoid spoiling books he hadn't released.
What's the source on that second piece of information?
[–]omnomonist 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago
Some interview with the two main producers of the show that I can't find right now, but it's out there!
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 12 months ago*
Anyone who has followed the series through the 11 years it took to finish AFFC and ADWD can tell you that 5 years... is not a lot of time for GRRM. Sure, he'll likely get book 6 out. But then you'll need book 7. And you'll need over a year to have them read it, break it down, script it, and shoot it.
While I don't think it likely that they'll beat book 6, they could very easily catch up to book 7 too soon. So they'll drag it out, and make 4 or 5 seasons out of the three books left right now. The problem is... things get so confusing and hopeless at one point. I totally expect a lot of backlash in Season 3 because of the events that will occur. I've known people who got through A Storm of Swords, or at least to those parts in it, and quit reading entirely. They just said screw it. It wasn't worth the effort. Continually adding new characters, continually killing off favorites, continually letting others crawl through entire books accomplishing nothing. At some point, they'll have to speed it up. We can't wait forever for certain things that have been hinted at in Season One. As a fan, I want it done right. As a realist, I know HBO won't be happy if fans start dropping like flies because there is just a point that you get to where you don't even know what the story is anymore, where the details have just become too ridiculous and lack a sense of direction. It's turned off book readers a lot, and HBO is going to have a hard time avoiding it. They can't slow it down too much, but they also can't speed it up. Basically, the best solution would be to yell at GRRM to get his ass in gear, but he has traditionally responded really, really badly to criticism of his pace writing the books.
[–]gandalfblue 5 points6 points7 points 12 months ago
I'd imagine HBO would have covered it ass somewhere in the contract by having some carrot or stick for GRRM to have the books finished in time.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 months ago*
As would I, but he's notorious for not giving a fuck about deadlines. More than likely, the show continuing past a certain point without going on hiatus is in there if he hasn't finished a certain amount. This is not out of the question for HBO -> The Sopranos has negotiations and other problems after Season 5 in 2004. They eventually came back in 2006, with half of a season, and the other half in 2007, to end the series.
It's just that when GRRM is backed against a wall of deadlines, he tends to flip out a bit and tell people to fuck themselves. I haven't seen anything to the contrary that this has changed. I'd hope that the show would push him, and the contract, to work harder. But you... if you'd followed it, you'd know just how many people gave up on the books entirely because of his nonsense. I have friends who have done just that, and refuse to come back because it's not worth the time invested anymore. The most optimistic I've heard from one was that he'll "read them when/if the series is ever finished." That's how bad the waiting and bullshit got. After A Feast For Crows, George is on record that he hoped to get the next book out in 2006 (he'd mostly written it, as it was part of A Feast For Crows, until it got too long and he cut half the characters out to be repackaged in A Dance with Dragons, which takes place at the same time as. The fact is that, when AFFC was published, he'd basically finished ADWD, according to his own words. In 2005. It came out in 2011.) He then continuously kept giving dates, and missing them, for years, until he finally started to refuse to say when. There's a whole section on wikipedia about the A Dance with Dragons "road to publication", but it specifically mentions certain character chapters he'd talked about, and thus contains spoilers, so I won't link to it.
[–]MearaAideenHouse Mormont 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
He'll either finish the books on time, or he won't. In either case, we can't worry about it. I prefer to think that, even with his previous track record, he'll push himself to get them done, and now that the story lines are less complicated (something he said in an interview to someone who was worried about the books), they won't take as much to write. It's all downhill from here, he just needs to follow his plots to the end.
However, knowing how it is with deadlines and not having something in the form you wanted it in when you sat down, I completely understand we may not have the books right away. Again, can't worry about it right now, HBO and GRRM will hash that out when/if it gets to that point.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
I think more than likely he'll end up writing way too many pages in the end, with book 6 way behind, and split the story into more books once again. I don't like that idea; AFFC was really weak because of it, and AFFC/ADWD combines to be too overly long and badly paced because of the splitting. What he needs is to collaborate with a really good editor to help him focus the story better. The books are about 50% filler waste at this point, and full of standing around because he hasn't figured out how to get characters where they need to be at the right times, all lined up, without making them get sidetracked and derailed and stand around.
[–]crasher_pt 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago*
I sincerely doubt that I'll ever believe that he had ADWD partially written after finishing AFFC. I don't even know how I could be convinced of that, not even if Mr. Martin showed the original manuscripts and swore on his mother's soul that what he wrote at the end of AFFC was true. AFFC read like a rushed piece of filler, and the time it took to publish ADWD hinted at a deep problem in GRRM's willingness to keep writing that story.
I'm not resentful for that, on the contrary. I think that the time he took was for the best, and I hope he keeps doing that. This saga deserves quality writing.
[–]17to85 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
I believe that he did have a lot of it written.... his problem is that he's so prone to completely re-writing so much of it. He obviously had problems writing that part of the story, reading some of the chapters in ADWD clearly shows the guy was struggling to move things forward but he already apparently knowns how the series is going to end so in terms of writing it, it should get easier as the end nears and the scope of the story starts to shrink a bit.
He had most of it written, and was hoping to have it out the next year. He had 1800 pages before AFFC came out, and it was unpublishable due to the size. So he broke it up, but along the way he made a hell of a lot of problems for himself that he didn't realize; things in ADwD that wouldn't line up or happen right because AFFC contradicts etc, and was already in print. He couldn't change AFFC, and it happened at the same time. So he had to rethink a shit load of things. Contrary to popular belief, he is on record that even he only vaguely knows how the series is going to end, and that the ending has changes over time. He's worked out broadly where he is headed now, and unlikely to change it again.
He was highly optimistic in 2005 at the AFFC release that ADwD was coming out a year later. He had a huge amount of pages written that he'd simply split off. It wasn't that he'd not had them. It was that he didn't recognize the cluster fuck he'd created for himself when he split the book. So much had to be rewritten and thrown out, and he says that there was a major flaw in his books that he discovered, something he can't reveal until the series is finished but completely screwed over where it was all heading. So he had to spend a very long time working that out and redoing most everything.
[–]crasher_pt 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
Not a bad excuse, but he had 5 years to work on it so it figures.
[–]PWL73316 5 points6 points7 points 12 months ago
And he told us he spent the better part of three years just trying to figure out how to get the pieces in place for ADWD. Now they are in place, the story is moving, everything is coming to a head. As he says, he is a gardener, the story writes itself to a large degree - all the characters are introduced and the pieces are all in motion, it's inevitable now. I wouldn't be surprised if both books are out within five years.
[–]HISTORYBLAST[S] 7 points8 points9 points 12 months ago*
Whoa there Serious Sanchez, it was a bit sarcastic. Though I will say that I think you are very wrong about them spreading things out over multiple seasons just to keep pace with the books. I don't see that happening. We've got at least 4 years before we catch up with the end of DWD, possibly even 5...and I would imagine they have discussed the possibility of the show catching up to the books long before they even began shooting the first season.
HOWEVER, if they reach that point and really want to wait for GRRM to finish....one way they could make me fucking cry and die would be to give us a season of Robert's Rebellion....In which case I would just die from awesome.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 months ago
yes they could do what Spartacus did after the main actor was trying to recover from cancer(sadly died rip).
In season 2 they did an epic epic prequel to season 1. Then season 3 they hired a new spartacus who is doing an awesome job.
[–]evanthesquirrelHere We Stand -1 points0 points1 point 12 months ago
I didn't see season 2, but I heard about the cancer. I did not know he has passed. His loss will be felt deeply. Especially by Showtime.
[–]Cloud7654House Mormont 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
Isn't Spartacus on Starz?
[–]evanthesquirrelHere We Stand 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
Ah, yes, my mistake
[–]EpilogueTimeHouse Baratheon 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
Or they could make Dunk and Egg
[–]NeonRedHerringValar Morghulis 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
Oh, shit. They'll have to slow down the show and spread out the material over multiple seasons? You mean they'll focus more on character development, and political intrigue, and each character will have more lines and there will be more seasons to watch?
How could you, George.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 12 months ago
Prologing the show could kill it. AFFC and ADWD are no where near as well ranked as the first three books, and are drawn out, badly edited, and lack the number of events you need to spread out the show while at the same time keeping it interesting. Also, A Storm of Swords will most certainly have a lot of TV viewers cursing HBO, GRRM, and the entire series, and quitting. The books had exactly that happen, and the recent popularity is on the coattails of the show.
The fact is that the books are really, really drawn out in places. They get excessively worse as the series goes on, and they really don't need more than maybe 5 seasons at most for books 3, 4 and 5 (4 and 5 will be cut up and combined so they are in chronological order). The seasons need big events. That's TV. They need them. These events must also occur fairly close to the order of the books, or things won't make sense. So they have to find events to focus on or they lose viewers. Season 3, being only part (but the bulk) of A Storm of Swords, has probably the biggest event yet. Last night's episode was seasons two's big event. Eddard's death was season one. But after that... it gets REALLY ambiguous, especially since they have to cover the remainder of A Storm of Swords in season 4 (not much happens at all in that remainder), and some of the lead in to their book 4/5 chronological mashup. This doesn't leave them with many events to follow. And viewers will drop the show if they aren't entertained with major twists and events they expect to be there. So they have to move at a certain pace, and the most they are going to get out of books 3-5 is maybe 5 seasons. Maybe. At least 4, but there just isn't enough material to justify more than 5 without boring the viewers with trivial details, characters, and conversations they are already skipping over in favor of keeping the show streamlined and easy to follow. They've already cut and condences characters completely out of the show in order to streamline it for the audience, who would get quite bored if the show was less about events and plot twists and more about learning the massive genealogical backgrounds GRRM subjects his readers to without point or need.
[–]Cloud7654House Mormont 3 points4 points5 points 12 months ago*
This is all just speculation, but I'm going to assume that the "big event" of season 3 is going to be ASOS Spoiler Plenty of stuff happens in ASOS after that event. Season 4 could be based on ASOS Spoiler.
I can think of a "big event" for at least 4 seasons that would fit chronologically with the show.
Dragging the three books on for an extra fifth season would be too much I think. Season 5's "big moment" that I suggested is a little iffy, but I can't recall anything more exciting happening around that time.
[–]TubbyMcTubs 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
[–]Cloud7654House Mormont 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
Ah yes, that was silly of me. I guess with the recent episode The Hound was on my mind a lot. I'll fix it, thanks.
The big issue is how they recombine AFFC and ADWD. The story lines that make sense in those books might be a bit drawn out over two seasons, yet they have to chronologically occur in a certain order. How all that breaks up becomes the issue. I am way too busy to actually do so myself, but if you want to, there are some chronological guides out there which break down the order of events. Here is an example, just throwing out off the top of my head, as an issue: book spoiler
[–]Cloud7654House Mormont 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
I think it's going to be the same issue that occurred with AFFC's release. People are going to be expecting another season of absolute mayhem and tons of action, but they're going to get AFFC. I've worried about that for a while, and I'm expecting many viewers to drop about halfway through season 5. I'm not sure how they're going to deal with the pacing though, you're absolutely right.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago*
George made a huge mistake when he split the books. For some reason he felt compelled to add so many PoV characters and flesh them all out (even though some were going to be killed in the same book they were introduced). He should have never split it. He should have got a good editor on board (rather, one that would help him make the hard decision he can't seem to do on his own and tightened up the story by cutting unnecessary chapters and even entire PoV characters.) Then, he should have truncated SOME of AFFC, adding it to the next book in the series, but staying in chronological order. This would have kept the story interesting, with all the characters you want, and not too many characters doing things at the same time over two concurrent set of events in two different books. If he had to cut it, he should have done so chronologically. Not in half, but maybe take those 1800 pages, pull about 500 to be used in a later book, a edit the remaining material down to a reasonable sized volume.
In his quest to leave no detail out, he has left too many details in that we simply don't need to know, don't care about, and that have not enough baring on the story that we should give a fuck about them while we're reading. Making something detailed doesn't make you Tolkien. Tolkien knew when a more detailed back story would be interesting in his story. He also knew when it would be completely unnecessary. Most of all, he knew where there might be a small amount of justifiable interest in certain details, but to included them inline with the story would ruin the narrative flow. That's why The Lord of the Rings has appendices at the end of the books. And other supplementary books that he was working on. It's also why I hate it when people call GRRM the "American Tolkien." Because Tolkien would never have put so much shit inline with his stories that was simply not that interesting to 99.99999% of the readers, and makes sense told in another way elsewhere for the tiny fraction who actually care.
[–]Captain_Sparky 4 points5 points6 points 12 months ago
It took him 11 years to write books 4 and 5
It took him 11 years to write books 4 and 5
Around 4 million words, 11000 pages, and you can throw in that the original author was diagnosed with a terminal illness in 2006 and died in 2007. He spent the last months of his life outlining the rest of the series, btw, something I'd never ask anyone to do, but he did anyways.
The new author has completed writing the 14th book (and the 3rd by him), with his books keeping pace with the original epic, paying excruciatingly close detail to the original works and author's notes, and mimicking that author's style. All while that author has written and released numerous books of his own, including volume one of his own 10 part fantasy epic (the first book is itself over 1000 pages)
Both these authors have kept to a very strict schedule.
So, at over 4 million words and 11000 pages when the 14th and final book is released on January 8, 2013, the series will have averaged 1.64 years per book. Add in the prequel works, and all the other works that the respective authors produced concurrent to working on the series.
While some authors may be slow like the author in your article, it isn't a standard for epic fantasy writers to be slow. Many writers easily push over 1000 pages a year, in all sorts of genres.
23 years, 14 books (and a prequel), 1.64 years per book, with an average length nearing on 300000 words
Many writers easily push over 1000 pages a year, in all sorts of genres.
Many writers easily push over 1000 pages a year, in all sorts of genres.
Yeah yeah - look, I like Brandon Sanderson. I think he writes some really great stuff. But if you honestly think his output it anywhere close to average, you're fucking insane.
John Scalzi is totally an average-paced novelist, and that's all there is to it. So you're wrong, and you're being ridiculous. You're expectations are too high, and you need to just step back and realize that.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
My only expectation at this point, which I think is reasonable, is that he complete the series before HBO catches up to it (as in, Book 7 comes out with enough time for HBO to break it down, script it, and shoot it, without the show going on hiatus or taking more than a year between seasons.)
If he manages that, I'll be fine with it. It's just that I think there is some past evidence to suggest that, at one point, HBO will be delaying seasons a bit, and making more seasons out of the material they've got in order to not out pace book 7.
[–]Captain_Sparky 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
I think there's a fairly good chance though, as long as he doesn't let the story grow any larger. I think his pace will probably keep up with the expanded time the series will need to get through everything, what with them probably needing about two seasons per every subsequent novel following this one.
And if it does outpace the novels...well, the show will just go on past them. The creators already know all the details anyway, so there's not much stopping them.
Actually, the creators don't know all the details. They know some of the details that George has told them in order to direct the show around necessary characters and plot points. He hasn't revealed the ending.
[–]tefinkFaceless Men 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
No but if he's already willing to give certain key details about book 6 and 7 for the show, I'm willing to bet he'll give a lot more.
He gave enough for them to not mess up the pilot, and then more when the show was picked up.
J.K. Rowling did the same for the Harry Potter films. She reviewed the scripts and clarified things that would be mistakes - missing characters that had been rolled in to other characters in the script, but would be central later on, clues that were in the books and needed to be in the films, etc. Her books were filled with clues and red herrings all over, and she simply ensured that all the clues (as well as a few red herrings) made it into the script. Steve Kloves is on record that he never new how the story would end, or even remotely close to it. This is actually pretty standard in this sort of situation.
Now, George has said they sort of know some of the ending in broad strokes, which is admittedly all he says he has planned out at this point. However, he remains a producer on the show and will most certainly not allow it to derail in favor of HBO making money at the expense of his unpublished book. He isn't going to let HBO write the ending of his story. That's absurd. There is a reason they have these ridiculous contract negotiations. Part of it is to protect HBO, but there is the other side of it to protect him and his intellectual property.
[–]ned_stark_realityValar Morghulis 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
Does that mean he willingly allowed them to completely ignore jojen and meera? :(
[–]Captain_Sparky 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
Nope. It's been confirmed that Benioff and Weis have been told the ending.
It's been confirmed that they know the ending 'in broad, vague strokes'. Which is what George has said is all that he has currently planned as well. However, GRRM is a producer on the show, and his contract leaves him the owner of his Intellectual Property. If they tried to end the series their own way, that creates a problem when he tries to publish his final book and it's different. Thus endangering his intellectual property. He would not allow someone else to write the ending to the series he will have spent nearly two decades on by that point. He is a control freak about his writings (and there are numerous posts on his blog about how he is severely against fan fiction and taking an author's work and making it your own). He simply wouldn't allow it to happen. And he's also admitted, on record, that the series might catch up before he finishes book 7. His publishers also have a part in this, as revealing the ending to the series endangers sales of the books. It just wouldn't ever play out this way. They'll draw it out a little here, a little there, and make projections to avoid it happening. And hopefully he'll work faster.
[–]Flashpoint13 8 points9 points10 points 12 months ago
How about give the guy who created this world and it's rich characters and history a break. If he wants to take his time writing the book then fine, it'll be tough to go without but it's what you have to do. The feeling of entitlement some fans bear is kind of disgusting, GRRM is not in your employ so let the man do as he wishes.
[–]Thom0House Mormont -2 points-1 points0 points 12 months ago
Yeah sure thats awesome and we should should give the guy a break considering he is an all mighty immortal fucking unicorn who will live for the next century. Lets face it the dude is super fat and unhealthy, hes got 10 years left max. Time is against this man and the last thing we wont (especially the long time fans) is for a conclusion never to be released because GRRM is a lazy shit.
[–]Prof_XavierChildren of the Forest 4 points5 points6 points 12 months ago
He just killed Arya because of that comment
[–]Flashpoint13 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago
You forgot to mention that he never intended to write AFFC and ADWD in the first place, making them incredibly difficult for him to figure out. That's why it took so long.
[–]Thom0House Mormont 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
George has written out the plans for the last two books and given them to David Benioff and D.B Weiss just in case he dies before he can finish them off. Only problem is that they can only use the plans to finish the show off.
[–]sravllHouse Dayne 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
Is this true?
[–]Thom0House Mormont 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
Yes of course it is, Im sure a quick google search will come up with results infact their was a post about it on /r/gameofthrones afew weeks ago.
[–]thenicastratorOurs Is The Fury 3 points4 points5 points 12 months ago*
Your "tl;dr" was tl;dr
[–]bakedaslaysDirewolves 7 points8 points9 points 12 months ago
need tl;dr for tl;dr
[–]domasinHouse Seaworth 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
Long time fans know what's up, and they hate OP's idea
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 months ago
It's like 3 lines. If we can't read 3 lines from someone being nice enough to sum their posts, that is a sad statement of this world. Try reading a newspaper sometime. You'll find they have no TL;DR's, and articles can go a full page or more!
Also, it's "your". Not "you're", which means "you are".
[–]thenicastratorOurs Is The Fury 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
Well it seems like at least 5 people agree with me...
Yes. Welcome to the internet. Attention spans are low, and people are lazy. I'm not about to adjust myself to that level. Either they catch up, or I just don't care. I've had this comment before, and it's a crap shoot. Sometimes it gets down voted, other times people agree. It's all a matter of time of day, mood, and what subreddit / post it's on.
I simply refuse to accept society spiraling downward because people refuse to learn to read fast enough. It's as if some people think everything can be boiled down to four word catchphrases. Life just isn't that simple, no matter how many people refuse to see it.
[–]OptimoNight's Watch 3 points4 points5 points 12 months ago
seemed like there was more swearing than usual in this episode
[–]justamathnerdHouse Tyrell 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
...and I was a fan.
[–]Prof_XavierChildren of the Forest -1 points0 points1 point 12 months ago
Incest=fine, but swearing=NEVER
[–]StylesclashHouse Blackfyre 5 points6 points7 points 12 months ago
I wish paperback came out at the same time as hardback. Trying to read the hardbacks on the train or in bed was not fun.
[–]tryharderyou 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
Thick heavy books are one of the main reasons I bought a Kindle. It's SO much nicer for reading in bed.
[–]HISTORYBLAST[S] 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
The tremendous girth of ADWD hardcover is literally the only reason I own a Kindle. I honestly don't understand hardcover other than that they look nice on a shelf when you are not reading them.
They need to have hardcover cases that you put your paperback into when you are done reading.
[–]StylesclashHouse Blackfyre 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
Hahaha yes I would buy a kindle if I could justify the usage. Having already caught up on this series, it's not worth my small amount of cash. The books I want to read next are already paperbacked.
[–]prodikl 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
or just nab the kindle app on android or ios. reading with the lights off laying on your pillow is awesomee
[–]ned_stark_realityValar Morghulis 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
Just finished ADOD like an hour ago and now I'm all depressed. what are you reading next? I'd love some recommendations
No idea. My friend recommended the Mistborn series so I might look into those.
[–]Sparticus2 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
Thanks, asshole. Who knows how many Starks you just got killed.
[–]radiomonkey20 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
As a book reader, the thing I especially love about this is that it gave him a chance to show scenes that didn't occur in the books. The Bronn/Hound exchange, Stannis' "motivational" speech, The Hound's "fuck the king" moment. I'm fine with the show extrapolating on Martin's story, but just makes this episode seem so much purer because it was Martin who wrote it.
[–]redditor3000Snow 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
Get to work GRRM!
Just kidding I love you
And he drew the sword away from Arya's neck
[–]yotensWinter Is Coming 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
As amazing as it would be for him to do this, TWOW and ADOS need to come first.
[–]CNDNFighterFaceless Men 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
So sad story. I saw him say last week that he is about 200 pages into TWOW. This would put us on about a 5 year schedule from the last book at this pace. Here is to hoping he picks it up a little.
[–]bapzannigan 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
Does this include the 150 pages he had left over from the end of ADWD?
[–]CNDNFighterFaceless Men 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
Good question, I'm not too sure...If so that would be quite disheartening. I will see if I can find the video of the interview.
[–]Sageo3000 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
i'll bend the knee to Martin
[–]DarkReaver1337Brotherhood Without Banners 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
Who would of guess the guy that wrote these awesome books would write an awesome episode of the series based on his book.
[–]roroco92 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
Anyone who has ever had to write something (be it fiction or non-fiction) will know that writing takes time. Good writing takes even more time. Excellent writing will take even more time than good writing. Then you have writer's block, lack of inspiration or simply not being 'in' the story during a period of time. Writing is damn difficult, especially with the scale of Martin's work
[–]JusticeJanitorHouse Lannister 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
We should just clone him and have one of the GRRMs to work on the show and the other on the books.
[–]raki016House Martell 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
I'll clone him thrice and have all three write the books all at once (which I predict would actually be three books).
[–]HellwemadeHouse Baratheon 1 point2 points3 points 12 months ago
Hi friend you seem to have stumbled upon the Game of Thrones subreddit and not GRRM's email address. I don't think your lovely letter of kind words will reach him here!
[–]Lord_Yellow_SnowHouse Manderly 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
He will but it will take him 6 years
so say we all. oh, wrong series.
[–]wildheartedsonHouse Clegane 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
the bible by george rr martin. sike
[–]tendeuchenHouse Targaryen 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
I agree. I had the exact same thought. Straczynski did it for nearly 4 entire seasons of 22 episodes each...GRRM could do it for these, especially since the books are already plotted out and everything...
They should just pay him a metric fuckton of money and I'm sure he'd do it...
Sorry but who is Straczynski?
[–]tendeuchenHouse Targaryen 2 points3 points4 points 12 months ago
The architect of one of the greatest sci-fi tv shows ever made:
[–]Stillflying 0 points1 point2 points 12 months ago
Are you kidding? Do you now want this man to finish the series?!
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