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The Forgotten Mid Ap/Tank Malphite (self.leagueoflegends)

submitted ago* by Maggeus

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I'm wondering why I'm not seeing Malphite mid anymore. Been quite a long time in fact. Imo he's still quite the impressive counterpick.

Did he have some nerfs or something ? I remember things like double or triple doran into Abyssal / Sunfire (or Randuin) at high elo that destroyed many AP. :O

EDIT : I'm not saying that you should build him AP. He doesn't have good ratios with AP, but just like some did before, building him with mr reduction items then going armor/hp, just to "lane counter" the midlane.

EDIT² : So it seems the main problems with Malph are his buggy ultimate (sad since Malphite was here for a long time) and also maybe the fact that Galio outshines him, due to his better skillset for mid lane right now.

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[–]Lancer37 4 points5 points ago

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...Wait... a champion that benefits is known for his skill that has an armor ratio and lowers AS... is countering mages... and not auto attackers... ._.

I feel confused.

Is it just his passive to remove all poke?

[–]Kittsy -1 points0 points ago*

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Malphite's Armor Ratios are really low, and basically a noob trap to make you build more armor than you need. (*see edit)

He has great burst, anti-poke passive, strong poke on Q, and his ult is an amazing ganking tool when your jungler ganks your lane, or if you have a chance to gank another lane.

Edit: Did some math, armor ratios aren't as bad as I previously thought, but still overrated IMO.

[–]Black_Ash_Heir 2 points3 points ago

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Well, his E does 50% of his armor in bonus damage. While you probably don't need 300 armor at 20 minutes, 50% is pretty significant.

[–]Kittsy 0 points1 point ago

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For each 1g you spend on armor, you get about 0.032 extra damage in a full combo if it's in melee range.

For each 1g you spend on AP, you gain about 0.08 extra damage in a full combo in melee range and 0.03 damage every time you poke.

Damage from AP also multiplies up (Deathcap and DFG give you more damage per AP). - AP typically gets you 3x the damage of armor before DFG/Deathcap/Lichbane, and 5x-7x the damage after that. Armor isn't 'worthless' for damage by any means, but it's definately not worth stacking as high as most new Malphite players do.

[–]Sinjako 5 points6 points ago

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Yes, but armor makes him tanky and you must not neglect Frozen heart, which makes him super tanky, reduces cdr by a lot and gives as debuff to enemy team.

Frozen heart is the one item that increases a malphites DPS highest.

[–]Anomonis 0 points1 point ago

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True that IMO, plus he can really use the mana.

[–]Skuly 0 points1 point ago

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Frozen is great for malphite indeed, and one must also remember that his ground slam also slows attack speed. It makes him really durable in the current meta, where top, jungle and carry are all AD.

[–]Black_Ash_Heir 1 point2 points ago

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...not worth stacking as high as most new Malphite players do.

100% agreed. Just saying that you should not neglect the bonus you get from armor. You gain survivability and damage by building a single stat, which makes armor inherently more valuable on him than on most other champions.

[–]Kittsy -1 points0 points ago

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Glad we agree then. There are just some people that see him and think, "Oh, he has an armor ratio. Ryze has a mana ratio and only builds mana, this guy should probably only build armor!" - thing is, Ryze gets like 0.13+ damage per gold spent on mana, Malphite's 0.3 damage per g, in melee range only, really doesn't compete. Same story for Rammus.

[–]Seraphice 1 point2 points ago*

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The way his skill kit works by lowering attack speed makes him more of a counter to ADs than to APs. Galio would be a far better tanky AP counter. He scales from building MR and has an ultimate that prevents them from casting.

[–]Kittsy 1 point2 points ago

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Yeah, overall hit kit looks like it's anti-AD, but he does well in midlane and defeats lots of APs. He's played midlane in some tournaments, and I know from personal experience he's very powerful in solo queue. Galio can work too, but Malphite is for different situations. Galio is great against champions with DoT spells, because he heals for each tick. Malphite hates them because they delay his shield. Galio pushes better, Malphite pokes more consistently (can't be dodged), but Galio has a longer potential range. Malphite's ult can't be interrupted and has its own flash, but Galio's lasts longer, ect.

[–]techandchess 0 points1 point ago

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But malphite bot built 500 armor and he was terror!

[–]Lancer37 0 points1 point ago

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You definitely don't HAVE to build armor on him, but I see no reason to call him a counter to mages- Galio is a better counter to mages, no?

People don't appreciate his jungle speed- his Auto Attacks AoE and his E is an AoE... His Passive comes up in-between camps... His Q is the perfect gank...and armor 5 pots makes his E do more damage. O:

He's not op, but hes not bad at all. :O

[–]Kittsy 1 point2 points ago

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He counters a lot of mages really hard. I prefer Malphite to counter someone like Leblanc over Galio. Galio against someone like Cass though.

[–]JoomiZ 2 points3 points ago

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The Forgotten Ad/tank/offtank Malphite*

[–]Rabogliatti 2 points3 points ago

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MTW.NA's Mandatorycloud pulled out a Malphite vs a Gragas in a tournament game yesterday and did very well against him. If I rember correctly his build was double doran's, sorcs, Glacial Shroud into Abyssal.

[–]Maggeus[S] 1 point2 points ago

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That's kinda cool Malph is still played mid ! :D

[–]Cigajk 6 points7 points ago

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EDIT² : So it seems the main problems with Malph are his buggy ultimate (sad since Malphite was here for a long time) and also maybe the fact that Galio outshines him, due to his better skillset for mid lane right now.

Galio is AP meta breaker, malphite is AD meta breaker.

[–]lukeatlook[Pyro] (EU-NE) 3 points4 points ago

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The main problem with "unusual" AP mids is their mana. Currently mid lane is mostly farming with ranged autoattacks. Those champs that do well in mid while being melee have much better mana reserves that make them able to punish ranged mages for trying to harass them with autoattacks - think Kassadin, Gragas, Galio, Katarina.

So AP mids like Malphite, Cho'Gath and Nautilus work, but it's best to build mana on them first, what makes them weaker in the midgame.

[–]charlesviper 0 points1 point ago

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Except, you can still just go two / three Doran's on Malphite which will more than tide you over before 7:20.

[–]Nomadtheodd 2 points3 points ago

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But you can't start with 2-3 dorans. Which means you are short on mana early on, and you have to go back to get them.

[–]-InsanelySane 1 point2 points ago

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Just countered a kassa in mid with malphite 2 days ago :D

[–]Maggeus[S] 1 point2 points ago

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Agreed that Malph should stomp him hard. :)

[–]Kittsy 1 point2 points ago

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I still play him mid, amazing counter to Leblanc.

[–]leprechaun1066 -1 points0 points ago

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I also play him mid from time to time. What's that? You have movespeed quints? MINE!

[–]thajugganuat 3 points4 points ago

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He just works better toplane if you want him in a lane.

[–]Maggeus[S] 2 points3 points ago

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Not entirely sure about that. Malphite top lane doesn't deal that much damage for midgame since you'll focus on, like, getting your frozen heart against an ad bruiser.

Malphite mid, as I've seen it like Alex Ich's one (if I remember correctly), could clearly deal "tons of damage" (copyrighted by Phreak) in mid game, and that was one of his greatness = great gankings in mid game with good burst, CCs, and a great initiator.

I'm not denying at all that Malph top can be good, simply stating that I don't think he's better !

[–]viper459 2 points3 points ago

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get sorc boots, frozen heart + sunfire + abyssal. tons of damage

[–]thajugganuat 0 points1 point ago

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Well, I may not be a great player but against people of my skill level I will absolutely wreck with Malphite top since a lot of toplaners are heavy on auto attacks to deal damage and the ult is nice for ganks and letting your jungler get to the enemy.

[–]Sugusino 0 points1 point ago

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You are right, if they pick Trynd, Riven or Fiora, Malphite works wonders.

Also Rammus, but noone plays Rammus top.

[–]thajugganuat 1 point2 points ago

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Or Jax, or Irelia.

[–]nnotserPx 1 point2 points ago

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Jax? what? the majority of his damage in lane is magic, how does malphite stop that in any way

[–]thajugganuat 1 point2 points ago

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Attack speed debuff does wonders against Jax.

[–]nnotserPx 1 point2 points ago

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doesn't do wonders against jax when the majority of his damage comes from proccing his ult + w all in 1 hit then disengaging

lol

[–]thajugganuat 2 points3 points ago

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Well, at my level it works well like I said. Jax's don't know how to disengage I guess.

[–]nnotserPx -1 points0 points ago

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I guess pressing Q is really hard

dunno

[–]Khue[Khue] (NA) 0 points1 point ago

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The ONLY and i mean ONLY character that gives me shit as Malphite top is Yourick. As long as their jungler leaves top to it's own devices or I avoid a couple ganks, everything is cool. The key is to stay lockstep or out level the other character. Q does so much damage with the right spec it levels the playing field. Yourick can basically operate on no mana and life steal perpetually.

[–]Sugusino 0 points1 point ago

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TBH you shouldn't play Malphite against Yorick, but if you happen too, it could be worse :P

[–]Khue[Khue] (NA) 1 point2 points ago

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Tis the plight of picking prior to the other team. =)

[–]Ginko132[Mr Ginko] (EU-W) 1 point2 points ago

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I know that he has major mana issues. And should build armor/hp so mid isnt a clear choice.

I do miss Maokai mid or Cho mid however.

[–]Maggeus[S] 1 point2 points ago

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I'm still seeing some Maokai mid, but it's extremely rare... Yeah, I do agree he has some mana issues, but it's not that different from many mana hungry ap mid.

Armor/hp is not a good build for mid indeed, but getting some mr diminution like sorcerer / abyssal made him a godlike laner mid against many mid lanes.

[–]rdzzl 0 points1 point ago

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I actually rocked my socks off as Maokai mid yesterday, but I suspect my opponent vladimir was less than good at the game. Unsure about the viability, but it was strong with udyr jungle, so you can just destroy the lane.

[–]Ravek 1 point2 points ago*

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How does Malphite counter any of the common AP mids? They don't care about his armor stacking, they don't care about attack speed reduction.

Could you explain?

[–]Maggeus[S] 4 points5 points ago

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Great base stats and base damage on his spells. Meaning he can trade easily thanks to his passive + non-skillshot Q.

Get mr reduction items. Sorcerer boots / abyssal scepters. Doran rings help you farm and harass / zone mid. You don't need armor early game since you're laning against an ap. You'll need some later on, sunfire and/or glacial shroud helps.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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mr / lvl probably part of it

[–]AJMorgan 0 points1 point ago

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If you're stacking armour on malphite you're doing it wrong

[–]Ravek 0 points1 point ago

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Why?

[–]AJMorgan 1 point2 points ago

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He scales so much better with AP so if all you do is stack armour then his abilities won't do much damage and he'll still be vunerable to magic damage so out side of his ultimate initiation he's basically useless.

[–]rdzzl 0 points1 point ago

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Had good success with 2xdorans glacial abyssal zhonyas, you could give it a try!

[–]AJMorgan 0 points1 point ago

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I tend to go 2x dorans -> RoA -> Rabadons if stomping/Sunfire cape for more survivability -> whichever one I didn't get -> Zhonya/Abyssal.

Maybe not in that order but something like that.

[–]Skuly 0 points1 point ago

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Frozen Heart is definitely one of my favourite items to get on Malphite. CDR is good and the mana always helps.

[–]Mystic_Snake 0 points1 point ago

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Malphite is ok in counterpicking, but suffers the huge problem of not being able to push the lanes fast. If I had to compare things, Galio (as though not the same profile, but close enough) is far more interresting in many aspects.

[–]chaosrain[chaosrain] (EU-W) 7 points8 points ago

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He can actually push lanes fast with his passive W and E, don't seem to find this being a problem though..

[–]Mystic_Snake 0 points1 point ago

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Well you virtually never level up W in midlane before 13. And the E doesn't really scale with AP so the damage still is poor, not mentionned melee.

[–]Maggeus[S] 0 points1 point ago

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The problem is how you define "fast". If it's Gragas / Galio fast, I don't think there are many ap carry that can push that fast. Let's say his pushing ability is simply correct past a certain level.

[–]Mystic_Snake 0 points1 point ago

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All the rather fotm can push rather fast : Mordekaiser, Ahri, Galio, Cassiopeia, kennen, morgana.

Malphite is rather far behind.

[–]fnxbaby 0 points1 point ago

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http://youtu.be/kGts4nxMqKk

[–]rozas[RoZaS] (EU-W) 0 points1 point ago

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The problem with Malphite is his mana pool. I tend to play Malphite jungle and if my midlaner needs the blue buff, I tend to run out of mana very easily.

[–]Sinjako 1 point2 points ago

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What do you build on him? If you rush philostone and only E the camps you should not run out of mana in the jungle.

[–]Khue[Khue] (NA) -2 points-1 points ago*

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I 100% agree with you on this. I find myself defending clarity on him all the time but you totally need it early game.

Edit: To clarify, I don't take clarity on him while jungling, but his regen is an issue. And you should always take blue buff on Malph over your midlaner if they want ganks. You need your R up as often as possible. Doubling a Q in one gank attempt helps as well. Flash + q + ult + groundslam + (possible second q).

[–]Seraphice 2 points3 points ago

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Clarity is never a valid choice for a summoner spell unless if you are playing ARAM or something, especially not on a mid champion. It is a worthless spell late game and if you really need to go back and forth for mana, Teleport is a better choice as it provide more utility and has different useage methods.

[–]Khue[Khue] (NA) 0 points1 point ago

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That's a perfectly valid argument and to be honest with you, if I hadn't had so many victories under my belt with this specific build I would tend to agree with you. I think the only thing I can offer is that:

  1. I am low elo, so my opinion on clarity is probably invalid but my perception is that it works. My perception is my reality.
  2. The way I am suggesting playing Malph is more tuned to playing the opponent and not the character the opponent picked for that lane.
  3. Most likely I am not going against skilled enough people and therefore that's why I am successful

Again man, I totally respect what you are saying here. You're absolutely right clarity is a shit summoner spell. I just can't deny my results.

[–]iwillrememberthisacc[Swswswswain] (NA) 0 points1 point ago

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It's because malph's mana costs early game are so obnoxious that he can get out-sustained by most mid laners.

[–]LurkingToaster[ZaraZua] (NA) 0 points1 point ago

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From what i've seen chogath does the job much much betteer. free sustain, and if you start with a lot of flat MR, you just sit in the lane like a brick.

[–]britneh[crMP] (EU-W) 0 points1 point ago

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He's a fairly decent counter to Fizz too, his shard comes out faster than the e can dodge it.

I think he's not favoured in tournaments and high level play due to his buggy ultimate see this post. I'm also not sure of the advantages to Malphite mid over Galio mid but I might be missing something.

[–]Maggeus[S] 0 points1 point ago

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Galio and Malphite are really not that different. I agree that Malph doesn't have that much advantages over Galio mid, despite the fact that Galio needs flash to make a perfect engage while Malph doesn't have to flash. His Q is also not a skillshot, so it's a reliable harass. Galio has his own great advantages (good ap/mr ratios, OP W spell, great and kinda easier to place ultimate).

If this bug happens a lot btw, yeah, maybe Malph isn't that good in tournaments. :/ That sucks.

[–]britneh[crMP] (EU-W) 1 point2 points ago

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It is a shame, still no word on a fix afaik

[–]Fausteaux[Grantchula] (NA) 0 points1 point ago

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He's got another bug but people don't seem to care about it. His [W], when the effect wears off, his attack timer resets directly after it. Before, it wouldn't affect the timers in any way. Now, it made me lose a couple minions and player kills in each game.

Of course, this means nothing for an AP Malph, but as for a DPS oriented Malph, it hurts..it hurts hard.

[–]fractis[Fractis] (EU-W) 0 points1 point ago

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Yea, I've only seen M5 playing him mid in a couple of games

[–]Dworgi 0 points1 point ago

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Fizz's E is instant.

[–]britneh[crMP] (EU-W) 0 points1 point ago

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I meant it has a lower cooldown, comes up was probably the less derpy way of putting it

[–]Skuly 0 points1 point ago

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I haven't experience a bugged ult in quite a while, but I'm sure others still are.

[–]TeqR -2 points-1 points ago

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Started playing amumu mid with a full m/res runepage. Stomped a Karthus the other day, surprising how much damage you can do from 1-5.

[–]AJMorgan -2 points-1 points ago

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I'm 100% with malphite mid (except for one game where we had a premade troll partnership and massive server lagg and like 7 people dc'ed) but every time I pick it I get called a troll :( It's really sad.

I think this video shows how strong it still is.