this post was submitted on 12 Jan 2010
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tedemang 13 points14 points 6 months ago[-]

Logged in just to post a comment on how amazing 1984 actually was. ...Back in 2004 when I was really beginning to question all the crap the Bushies were saying about the Iraq War, I went and re-read it and it's pretty mind-blowing.

Some of the other redditors are probably smart enough to laugh at me and say that they saw through the government propaganda before then, but people like Gen. Colin Powell really sold me.

Thanks to Orwell, and a lot of other research since then, it sure is a lot easier to see through some of the messages they bombard you with.

For anyone who's an Orwell fan, make sure you read "Animal Farm" and especially the preface. In fact, here's a link: Animal Farm Preface

kamikaze63 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

Animal Farm is killer.

brock_lee 7 points8 points 6 months ago[-]

Did you read Brave New World? That's a good'n too.

slack31337 2 points3 points 6 months ago[-]

I loved brave new world .. it is more along the lines of what is happening today.. society is fucked

keydemographic 2 points3 points 6 months ago[-]

I kinda think it's both. Put up the Huxley front while Orwell shit is going on in the BG.

borderl1ne 2 points3 points 6 months ago[-]

Yeah, it's definitely elements of both. People saying 1984 doesn't much relate to contemporary society obviously don't live in the UK :(

Even besides the ultimately rather shallow surveillance comparisons, how anyone can miss the relevance of "We have always been at war with Eurasia" etc is a mystery.

slack31337 1 point2 points 6 months ago[-]

yeah that is true.. never thought of it that way.. wow more depressing :)

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

No, it's next on my list. Is it as depressing as 1984? I might pass if it is... How about Fahrenheit 451?

nobody_you_know 2 points3 points 6 months ago[-]

It's much better. 1984 is good, but I think it's pretty apparent that Brave New World is much more applicable to our current society.

MoT 3 points4 points 6 months ago[-]

This 3 part interview with Aldous Huxley is very interesting.

"if you want to preserve your power indefinitely, you have to get the consent of the ruled...... and so making him actually love his slavery"

the powers that be. you're doing it wrong.

fuzzybunn 4 points5 points 6 months ago[-]

As a Singaporean, I think some governments are doing it right.

enjoys high GDP and safe streets whilst avoiding political commentary

MoT 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

true.. it also seems better than the pretentious theater going on here in EU and all other so called democracies.

Poromenos [S] 1 point2 points 6 months ago[-]

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of :/

nobody_you_know 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

Well, if nothing else, it's depressing in a completely different way -- it's depressing the same way American Idol is depressing. So you've probably already got some resistance built up. You already live in Huxley's world.

And it's short, so it'll be over quickly.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

Hey, at least there's no "Brave New World" in "Brave New World", so we're one better... As an aside, the phrase "Brave new world" is wonderfully alliterative in Greek.

psycosulu 0 points1 point 6 months ago* [-]

And it's short, so it'll be over quickly.

The pessimist in me is hoping you aren't talking about the book.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

That's pessimism?

williamTrufus 2 points3 points 6 months ago[-]

brave new world is a must read, especially for you, because it seems like you understood and appreciated 1984... they go together in a weird way. Don't let these books depress you. Wear that emotion as a badge of honor because understanding these works says oodles and oodles of noodles about your character and intuition. F451 is worth reading, but it didn't change my life...

If I may suggest a few others if you haven't got to already - catch 22, catcher in the rye, notes from the underground (big boy version of catcher in the rye), nausea, house of leaves, atlas shrugged (before you downvote - i hate palin just as much as the next guy, this is still a must read). great post.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

Ah, I'll read it then, thanks... I kind of want to see the other side of the coin.

psycosulu 1 point2 points 6 months ago[-]

It's not exactly in the same vein as the other books but might I suggest Slaughterhouse-Five.

v4mp1r3 1 point2 points 6 months ago[-]

Great book as well! Good recommendation.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

I'll keep it in mind, thanks!

fffish 1 point2 points 6 months ago[-]

You also want to read The Handmaid's Tale by Atwood. It should also bum you out.

Waterrat 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

Yeah Handmaid's Tale is really a serious read... I read 1984 more than once,need to re read BNW.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

Then I don't!

sagewah 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

It's my favourite book ever. and if 1984 brought you down, the BNW will FUCK YOU UP.

It has more sex in it though; that's pretty good.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

Well, I read it, I didn't find it depressing at all, except for the part where John clung to his notions of morality and unnecessary atonement. That was his nature, though, I guess.

sagewah 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

Glad you enjoyed it!

I think the thing that depressed me - and I read it first when I was ten-ish, many many years ago - was that it was coming true, right before my eyes.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

The thing that made it better for me was that Mustapha Mond seemed to genuinely care about the people's happiness and produced some good arguments as to why this world was better than ours. This is the opposite of 1984 where all the Party wants is to stay in power and make everyone as miserable as possible.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

How the hell is that even possible? Now I have to read it!

powatom 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

The depressing thing about it is the inevitability of it. 1984 talks about an oppressed humanity, whereas Brave New World talks about an ignorant humanity. BNW describes what you and I might call a utopia, where nothing is particularly 'bad'. Everyone is happy precisely because they're ignorant. BNW is far, far more applicable to our modern society imo.

It is quite a troubling read, more than anything. The society is obviously happy (aside from a minority, who do not really understand why they don't fit in), obviously efficient. If you want something, you can have it. Everybody does the job they're best suited to, and can basically do whatever they feel like. You find yourself thinking 'this actually sounds like a pretty good world'. I won't spoil it for you but it is very unsettling how appealing the world in BNW sounds.

v4mp1r3 1 point2 points 6 months ago[-]

Not to mention everyone is wasted on soma, in BNW, so of course everyone is happy.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

As promised, here I am after reading it. I did find everything you describe to be accurate, it does sound like a utopia and a pretty good world. I didn't find it unsettling, though.

It's basically a debate of traditional morality vs happiness. I'm sure our world (liberated genders, more individual freedoms, more equality) would sound something like BNW to people from 200-300 years ago. If everyone is happy, isn't that what matters?

Hell, if you don't like that, they even give you the option to leave it and go live in an island the way you want. 1984 was the exact polar opposite of this in every way.

DogBotherer 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

BNW is far, far more applicable to our modern society imo.

I agree, but with the caveat that if you're not happy and you start to stir things up too much, they go all 1984 on your ass.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

I am thinking that, and I will read it and come back and reply to your comment when I'm done reading it, methinks! Thanks!

admiralteal 0 points1 point 6 months ago* [-]

F451 is hardly even good. As was said best by Oliver Watson, it hardly seems fair to praise an author for writing a book about how powerful and good and great and wise and important authors and their books are.

I didn't find Brave New World all that depressing. Good, but not depressing. It's hard to explain why without spoiling things, but it comes a lot down to how differently the two books end. Worth a read, though.

edit: If you want something to cheer you up, the linked book is quite enjoyable and short.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

I'll keep that in mind, thanks a lot!

brock_lee 0 points1 point 6 months ago* [-]

It's better, I think. More appropriate to today, if you can believe it. I read it in 1993 or so, when someone recommended it to me. He said then that it was more descriptive of our society today. Interestingly, it's gotten even moreso since.

F451 is also pretty good, but not, IMHO, as interesting.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

From what I've heard, I think so too... I'll give it a try, thanks.

Lycur 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

It's at least as depressing as 1984. Fahrenheit 451 isn't very depressing, but it's also niether as insightful nor as captivating as BNW and 1984.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

Aw :/ Thanks for the info.

blankblank -1 points0 points 6 months ago[-]

We is also amazing and predates 1984, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

Oh, I'll give it a shot, thanks!

[deleted] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

I just finished 1984 and now am going on to Brave New World.

hippocloud 3 points4 points 6 months ago[-]

Are... are you implying that you don't love Big Brother? Dude, you can't say those things. The Party has eyes everywhere. EVERYWHERE

v4mp1r3 2 points3 points 6 months ago[-]

The last four words man... I slammed the book down and said WTF?!

I love this book. Four words can rock you too your core. AWESOME!!!!

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

Yeah man, that was the bullet. I was pretty bummed out by that point, but that was just the "fuck you" on the cake.

v4mp1r3 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

I think that without that ending, the book just wouldn't be the same in my eyes. That ending did piss me off for about 15 min. but I couldn't stop thinking about it and it really got me pondering society and the interactions with governments.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

I agree, I knew early on that the book couldn't have a happy ending... Too bad, but the book would be worse for it, if it did, I think...

PerfectShady 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

What were the last 4 words, I can't recall. Feel free to pm me if you don't want to spoil it.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

idikuci 3 points4 points 6 months ago[-]

had the same affect on me... thats one book i'll never read again

admiralteal 2 points3 points 6 months ago* [-]

I don't feel you ought to be downvoted for this sentiment. I agree; I'd never want to read it again. It was burned into my brain the first time and will never go away, better or for worse (though I'm inclined to think it's "for better"). Still, reading it again knowing how it ends? I don't think I have the heart.

(Unless you're getting downvoted for affect instead of effect. Then there's nothing I can justly say. The internet is cruel.)

Poromenos [S] 2 points3 points 6 months ago[-]

Yeah, same here :/

qquicksilver 1 point2 points 6 months ago* [-]

If you want a truly uplifting book about the future, read The Road by Cormac McCarthy. It's not bleak, heart-wrenching and hopeless at all.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

I will keep it in mind, thanks!

MissTre 1 point2 points 6 months ago[-]

I had to read 1984 in high school. I credit that book for "changing my life" - ya know, if I'm going to be over dramatic about it.

It was the first time something I read did not have a happy ending. It was the first time I'd read something that left me feeling hopeless. I remember I just cried and cried and cried.

I want my daughter to read it, to open her mind, but I think she's still a bit too young. She's not in high school yet. However, her first adult movie was V for Vendetta (just this past week). She really enjoyed it- but we didn't discuss it afterward to see what she got from it or if she truly understood the plot.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

I don't think children can understand all of it, but they can grasp some things and then reprocess the book as they reread it when they're older...

aznpwnzor 1 point2 points 6 months ago[-]

Death of a Salesman

blew my mind like Fight Club

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

I saw the movie, I didn't like it very much :/ Too depressing again.

xoites 1 point2 points 6 months ago[-]

I suggest you read The Wonderful Wizard of Oz by L. Frank Baum. It is totally different from and better than the movie (which i have always loved).

It may not be a light hearted romp, but it will certainly entertain you and get you out of the doldrums.

Poromenos [S] 1 point2 points 6 months ago[-]

Oh, I read that like ten times, it is indeed great. Thanks for the recommendation!

[deleted] 1 point2 points 6 months ago[-]

Seriously, my sympathies. I read it 25 years ago and it damned near killed me.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

Thanks :(

Lycur 1 point2 points 6 months ago[-]

Here's an upbeat essay by Orwell as a counterpoint. It's a bit out of season, but this is my favourite thing Orwell wrote.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

Thanks for that!

edibledinosaur 1 point2 points 6 months ago[-]

Having read it several times for high school english, It has completely killed the message for me - All I see now are themes and techniques.

Poromenos [S] -2 points-1 points 6 months ago[-]

What message? All I got was that there is and can never be any purpose or enjoyment in anything, and this is so just because the Party are a bunch of dicks.

thebrightsideoflife 4 points5 points 6 months ago[-]

Centralizing power

Control of the message and the media

Indoctrination and brainwashing

Surveillance society

Extreme nationalism

Motivating the masses through fear

etc...

... lots of interesting themes in there that directly apply to the world around you today and should be a warning of what to avoid if you want to provide a future of purpose and enjoyment for future generations.

Poromenos [S] 1 point2 points 6 months ago[-]

Very true :/

Lycur 2 points3 points 6 months ago[-]

The message is to not let the Party into power in the first place. Don't be motivated to bad decisions by fear, question authority and be suspicious.

admiralteal 2 points3 points 6 months ago[-]

Was it? Did you ever read Orwell's essay on Newspeak attached to the end of most editions? Seems to me the lesson was that if you let someone control your language, you let them control you. Also seems to me you've gone and let your teachers tarnish a potentially pleasant/insightful experience for you by controlling the language you use to conceptualize it. Fancy that, eh?

[deleted] 3 points4 points 6 months ago[-]

It never ceases to amaze me how the linguistic aspects of '84 are completely ignored by so many. Really, that is what is meant by Orwellian - most people use it as a simple synonym for dystopian.

wanderingjew 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

I never got the Newspeak. I understand that yes, controlling language controls a population, but people are surprisingly adaptive. In 1984 there were always reports of 'hey guise! you gonna get new boots soon!' - but they never came. You can't get rid of the question, 'where are our boots?'

Caradrayan 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

If you control the definition of "soon" the question "where are our boots?" never comes up.

MrJandels 1 point2 points 6 months ago[-]

I think what you've got to take from the book is a sense that however fucked up our culture of capitalism is, it could be a hell of a lot worse.

That's my view, speaking as a professional optimist

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

I don't know, I feel as if I am living in the world of the book, and there is no hope. The writing is apparently that good. That's why I don't like shit with sad endings :(

InsanityInversion 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

I thought that's what China is for.

jmills 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

Soylent Green is the people...oh wait...carry on then.

[deleted] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

I recently started picking up books again and actually finished 1984 last night. It was interesting, I like how the ending wasn't all lovey dovey "happily ever after"....but I just don't seem to feel the pull from these books like anyone else. It's nice to read them but it's not mind blowing.

obscurerefference 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

Check out Burmese Days, one of his 1st novels, while he was serving in Burma with the Indian Imperial Police in the 30's. Gives you a great insight into him as a young developing writer, still forming a lot of his ideas (before the Spanish Civil War and all the other European stuff he was a part of).

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

Ah, I will, thanks!

thebrightsideoflife 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

I also reread it in the last month.. I challenge anyone and everyone to either read it or reread it asap.

Your next book should be this or this.

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

Well, those look US-centered, though, which I don't care much about... Thanks for the recommendation, I'll have a look!

KingofAntarctica 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

that book changed my life man. shit is real dog.

nomdeweb 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

Now check out Michael Radford's excellent 1984 film adaptation, shot on the actual days noted in Winston Smith's diary (e.g. The scene where Smith writes in his diary, dating the entry April 4, 1984, was shot on April 4, 1984).

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5464625623984168940&hl=en#

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

That's very interesting, thanks!

mayonesa -1 points0 points 6 months ago[-]

Now read Brave New World for a non-cartoon perspective.

efrique 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

I think Brave New World is much more nearly prophetic (well, not in all aspects, but certainly in the sense that society becomes utterly focused on the trivial and sensational).

Poromenos [S] 0 points1 point 6 months ago[-]

I'm going to, thanks :/